What many people here easily forget is that tire melting high performance cars or radical designs are not the norm as far as what people buy. Saying Chevrolet is going under simply because it doesn't have a Camaro or some type of high powered RWD car is completely misguided.

Although the current Impala won't win any beauty prizes out the box, the thing DOES sell! In fact, out of 30 something car lines GM makes, Impala has been switching 1st place with Grand Am and Cavalier for years.

Also, the FWD Impy sedan looks pretty good with rims and dual pipes (courtesy of young kids buying used Impalas due to it's basement insurence rates).

No doubt, Ford has some INCREDIBLE performance cars, and they seem to be the only people on the planet who can do a sports coupe profitably. The Chrysler 300 & Magnum are lookers, a 155 mph pickup truck is simply outrageous, and the SRT-4 has instant street cred with the import guys. But outside of these models, what do the currently have?

Chevrolet may not really be exciting as far as we're concerned, but it's far and away better than the #1 brand, Toyota. Toyota doesn't have a Corvette, an SSR, an HHR, The Cobalt SS, or supercharged FWD 5 passenger sedans (Impala). Chevrolet can also easily take over Pontiac's position if necessary & is actually the brightest spot at GM. Despite no Camaro.

 

I don't buy into the theory that performance cars "aren't what people buy."

What you aren't saying is that Impala sales depend far too heavily upon fleet sales and incentivization.

You also forgot to mention that the G6 and Cobalt haved failed (so far) to sell as well as the old Grand Am and Cavalier.


As, I've said many times before the Impala is a good used car.


What does Chevy (or GM, for that matter) have to offer? Nothing. Nada. Zip. At least Chrysler has the 300C and Ford has the Mustang and something is better than nothing.


The new Corvette was ruined by Tom "Aztek" Peters, the SSR is joke, the HHR is half a dozen years late, the Cobalt SS is sadly overpriced and the Impala is a hopeless rental unit.

GuionM, like so many other people on this board you are too willing to see the Pontiac brand disappear.

 

The Monte Carlo just sucks also

 

[QUOTE=redzed]I don't buy into the theory that performance cars "aren't what people buy."






really? How 'bout looking up the sales of passenger cars in the past 2 or 3 years.........I think you're in for a surprise.......







What you aren't saying is that Impala sales depend far too heavily upon fleet sales and incentivization.



so....how many actually went into rental????


You also forgot to mention that the G6 and Cobalt haved failed (so far) to sell as well as the old Grand Am and Cavalier.


That's an unfair comparison...the reason Cobalt has not outsold Cavalier is because it's still 'ramping up' in production...you don't start to build an all new car at the line rate you ran the old one....the Cobalt j/p/h is far below Cavalier right now...and that's because we want to ensure quality from the start....(you might want to read the Auto Week quick test of the Cobalt LT ..they were very impressed with it.....don't take my word for it...go read it..)

....further, Cobalt Coupes are just starting to land at dealerships.......they were delayed.


As, I've said many times before the Impala is a good used car.




and it's a good new car as well........go sit in one.....look it over...drive it, (keeping in mind who its target market is...and you'll find it's an excellent value.


The new Corvette was ruined by Tom "Aztek" Peters, the SSR is joke, the HHR is half a dozen years late, the Cobalt SS is sadly overpriced and the Impala is a hopeless rental unit.

Who said the Corvette was ruined? Every generation Corvette goes thru a period where some hate it.....in fact, the '63 was horribly received.....the C5 had more people upset with the styling than the C6.....and again, don't pass final judgement until you've driven one.......a look on any Corvette enthusiast site will show you that it has been extremely well received.

THe SSR is overpriced. The owners, however, love 'em for the most part.

Cobalt SS overpriced??????

(banging head against wall.....)
Impala will sell nearly 300,000 units this year FIVE years into a lifecycle....so not everyone agrees with you on this either.....

I suspect you'd love to see GM succeed ....at least I hope you would...and we're all frustrated that things aren't the way we'd like....

but get your facts straight.

 

The Cobalt SS overpriced.. It costs just as much an SRT4 and has a better interior, 18 inch wheels and over 200fwhp

 

I have seen the autoweek reveiw and notice they are only talking about the Cobalt LT. I was very pleased to hear it. Can't wait till they reveiw the SS. Notice how no one mentions Hertz or Budget when speaking of Mustang sales! Sounds like a double standard to me. Good post red. That is exactly what I have been trying to say . I think what is meant by "performance cars are not what sells" is they are not the majority of what sells. Impala is a bread and butter car, to me this is probably why they have been reluctant to make the move to RWD on it, but the DoD V8 is a nice addition to both cars . Oh, by the way Happy Easter everyone. The HHR is Hot lookin', way nicer than PT to me. I have some friends who I showed it to, who now want 1.The SSR, I have wanted since I first laid eyes on it, its awsome, too much $ for me especially right now! I saw them at the dealers & at Carlisle ( GM Nats) up close man...the details the little bowties in the moldings and side markers! Oh Man this thing is sweet! I love it! Now LS2/T56 its killer! The Z06 fagetaboutit! Chevy rules man, Only reason I never bought a new Camaro or any new Chevy was I'm in N.J. and couldn't afford the ins. on top of the payment. I have a house payment too.

 

Chevy isn't all that bad. The Cobalt SS and c6 are excellent products. The Ls2 TrailBlazer SS is right around the corner and that is another fine product. The Impala SS is kinda dated (debuted 99??) and offers no AWD on the SS model, but it has 303hp v8. The Malibu SS dissapoints too in that there is no manual tranny option, but it should undercut the 240hp Altima's and Accord v6's in price hopefully so it'll have value going for it. The Silverado SS is finally rumored to be getting a supercharged 6.0L vortec engine and i hope that turns out true. Could they be doing better? Definitly and i think it starts with filling the void left by the camaro with nice mid-sized rwd sports coupe (5th gen), but hopefully they're getting there.

I think their current and upcoming performance offerings are fine.

 

Pretty much couldn't have said it better....and the Malibu, while criticized by many, is challenging the Camary for its reputation in quality.

 

I wholeheartedly believe that performance sells. Consider the fact that the majority of Subaru Imprezas sold annually are the not-exactly-cheap WRX models. Consider that nearly half of 2005 Mustangs sold are GTs. Consider that the not-too-fuel-efficient Hemi-engined Daimler-Chrysler products are outselling their less powerfull V6 and non-Hemi V8 counterparts in just about every model line.

You're the one who should have that sort of figure at your command. (Personally, I don't know if GM has shifted fleet sales away from the Impala to other W-bodies.)



I'm not criticising GM for launching the Cobalt slowly, but for creating the impression of a lackluster launch. I'd like to state that the very first Cobalt I ever saw (this was back in January) was a rental unit. That was something that shocked me.




I think that the word "good" can be applied to any new car these days. We live in an era where "bad" cars (in the traditional sense) have disappeared from the market. I've driven the Impala and I can honestly state it's a better car than the outgoing Ford Taurus but it's not in the same league as any of Chrysler's LX-platform cars.



Red Planet, I've had a lifelong fascination with the Corvette. Growing up, I can still remember the C3s owned by neighbors and relatives. As a small child, I was thrilled by the introduction of the C4. When I was barely out enough to vote, I was enthralled by the new C5. I can honestly state that if the F-body had died at the end of the 1999 model year, I would have ended up buying a C5 instead of my Z28.

Red Planet, the introduction of the C6 has changed my mind about the Corvette. I was shocked when the first C6 coupe I spotted had an MSRP of nearly $55K. I've made my opinions of the C6's shorter/higher/narrower proportions know before, but I think you deserve my specific objections:

- I'm shocked that the C6 retained the same sort of "black rubber gasket" windshield surround treatment as the C4 and C5. This is the one visual feature that should never have been retained.

- I'm horrified that the C6's interior retains so many tacky styling cues. Was it neccessary to stamp the word C-O-R-V-E-T-T-E (in huge letters into the dash?

- I object to the "concave" rear styling treatment. I know it's supposed to be reminiscent of early C4 Corvettes, but on the C6 is looks more like the result of a "tail-ender" collision.

- Most of all, I object to the front end treatment of the C6 Corvette. I know that retractable headlights have been out of favor for the last decade and I can also appreciate that the location of the air intake might very well have been dictated by engineering and packaging concerns. I know there are always "reasons." I just don't like it.

Redplanet, I can understand that you have a substantial level of personal involvement with the C6 Corvette. Don't take my criticism personally.

Thanks for the candor.


The supercharged Cobalt SS is priced between the Mustang and the Mustang GT. When you can spend $2,500 less to get a base Mustang or $3,000 more to get the stunningly quick Mustang GT, a car like the $22K Cobalt SS seems dramatically overpriced.

The new 2005 Mustang is a stunning product. Ford got this one right and I can understand why the the Mustang is a success - not that I'd ever buy a Mustang

It's impossible to deny that the Impala "moves units." It's also impossible to deny that Daimler-Chrysler's very flawed, but brilliant LX-platform cars move units as well.

I'm still pleased with my LS-1 Z28 after 5 years of ownership. My Camaro was my first brand new car and I had ZERO warranty claims. When it comes to my Z28, GM has been very good to me. Do I want GM to succeed? YES.

I'd also like to state that after my exceptional F-body experience and twenty years of exclusive GM ownership in my family, I still bought a Nissan Armada. Why? There was a significant financial incentive for me to buy GM, but there was nothing in the lineup that could match the value and the performance of the big Nissan.

There are limits to brand loyalty.

I'm less "frustrated" by recent developments than most people on this board. When it comes to the recent "platform" developments, I haven't attempted to second guess anyone. What scares me more than anything is the sense of lost optimism.

I call 'em like I see 'em.


Anyway, its good to see you're back again Red Planet.

 

Considering the base Mustang would probably be eaten by the Cobalt SS and from what I hear it's darn near impossible to get into a new GT for that $25,000 base price (options and dealer markups are driving the price near $30,000), I'd say the Cobalt SS is priced just fine. We're talking SRT-4 pricing territory with a much more refined package, from interior to exhaust noise levels to a Nurburing-tuned suspension....

 

I must say I also had a lifelong fascination with Camaros and Corvettes as well. However I have a different take on the C6. I like it alot, and a big part of that for me was in the "concave rear". The C5 had it to a lesser extent. In fact it is one of the reasons, for me at least, after 68-73 the vette was bland in the back. Then the 84 came out with a similar look I loved it, and still do. Almost like a built- in spoiler. IMHO the C6 has more of the Vettes past than any Vette to date. From the back window, to the door handles, to the overall shape, this thing is outstanding. I know the headlights are not hide away, but the lighting is much improved, and I do think with some Carbon Fibre backround treatment these new lights would look awsome. I have seen C5's with this treatment and it looks way better than the pop-ups. I also think the SSR should continue on. I don't think it should be a limited run. Obviously I don't think its a joke at all! The " angry eyes" look as mentioned in another post could be used. I don't think this is a new thing for Chevy either. Anyone remember the 55-57 pickups, only the baddest, angrest looking truck ever. These features could be carried to a next Gen SSR for a more in your face styling that ppl couldn't help but take notice. I think the SSR, sadly took a lot of the heat for the Camaro going away, too bad cuz its really sweet. The GTO, I think also bears some of that same heat! Too bad, anyone remember sleepers, cuz in my book the Goat wins hands down. To me the SSR eliminated the one thing I never liked about verts, the top up look. Oh, and the Trailblazer SS is also pretty sweet. What we need besides the obvious...Um "Sportbike" is a Reg. cab Silverado SS (lightning Killer). I can't wait to see what is in Chevrolets future. We have some great vehicles and they keep getting better.

 

Oh, and by the way my GF's son is 18 and has just started working. He wants to save up so he can buy a Cobalt! I have been around since he was 3, and would like to think I have had an influence on him. Now I am workin' on one of his buddies, who's dad has some credit on their GM card. He is also just starting a job and very much likes the GTO. Hopefully he will buy one before long.

 

I'm very fond of all C3 Corvettes, but I have to admit that I've never liked the earlier chrome bumper 'Vettes as well as the later integrated bumper C3s. Oddly enough, carbuyers back in the '70s must have agreed because those early C3 Corvettes didn't sell very well but the later (progressively slower) C3 'Vettes sold very well indeed.:!

IMHO, I couldn't disagree anymore. When every Corvette gained a ZR-1 style rear-treatment in 1991, it was huge improvement.

 

I like all the chrome bumper models better than the later C3's; however I completely agree that the ZR1 rear was much better than the original C4.

 

I would agree, but I also liked them from 91 up too! My point was that I didn't care for them much after 73 until the 84, then I love em' all the way up to the current model. For me they've been getting better ever since 84. And now ...man they are phenominal. C4 for me was when they started to get good again, they had the chassis, and the engines were coming. Also redzed says performance sells, and I would agree with that as well. It sells big time! However GM has to tread very lightly here, as they are the ones under the microscope. Ford , and DCx will get away with alot more here. Just like in the...what year was the AMA ban on racing( late 50's early 60's)? Anyway the Gran Sport Corvettes never got to run due to this scrutiny. Their back door was being watched like a hawk (F-ing nader) . But Fords GT40 got away with it, and brought it to the Europeans in a big way . Woo Hooo! Just as the C5R Race team is doing today. A great thing to be sure, but the "others" will get away with marketing performance much more than GM can. You just have to know if you want performance GM has it. With that GT500 though, its getting really tight! GM, Chevy, Pontiac