I should make my statement more clear and not use examples.
What I was trying to get across is this.
Z/28 is the fastest Camaro that we know as fact, that will be selling. There are no other cars you could have gotten from every single dealer (i am excluding the yenko, gibbs, dealer tuned cars) that are above it. The Shelby was an exclusively tuned car. Low in production, but widely available (but still rare). Camaro has nothing to compare to that. There are Yenko, Dana, and others, but there weren't as widely know, and still aren't as widely known as the GT500.
I don't have time to respond to your other posts, but I must say that we can both agree we are arguing for a car that probably will never exist. As much as I want it to. As much as I come on here lobbying for something as extreme as a stripper car in hopes of GM producing something a bit more mild to keep us at ease (exactly the track and drag cars you are requesting). As much as I hope for these cars, they just aren't reality for GM(nor any other manufacturer at this point).

 

uhm..........kinda, sorta, no.......

SS was Factory from 1998 thru 2002. The only components SLP put on the base car were the hood and spoiler...and that's only because it was easier to do it that way based on the way Ste. Therese was set up from a manufacturing standpoint. (it also made it 'convenient' to keep a 'second sticker' program going -- when it was hard to get resources from the corp. to keep improving a car that was essentially given it's death sentence in 1996.

Now... 1996 and 1997 model years were Z28s converted after the fact.

True, you could order 'second sticker' content from SLP.....but you could also order an SS from the factory -- with one window sticker. Now...the Berger Camaros and Earnhardt Camaros and Tom Henry Camaros and Carl Black Blackbirds -- those, I'd say, were like Saleen and Callaway..........not factory. Even then, there were stark differences in the way we worked with GMMG to do those cars......

As to Z28's recognizability......yes, to a point. Many people know the Z28 name....but they don't remember the original 302 engine. But...(and this will make Charlie very happy).....the Z28 is exclusively Camaro.....and, it could be argued, is the 'second' brand name for Camaro. (IROC is another name that conjures up visions of a 3rd gen....)

And you are correct in that most don't know what a ZL1 is......and yes, they were nearly sale-proof. So, for that matter, were most Yenkos in 1969....I very much remember stopping at the Yenko dealership with my father in 1970....and Don still had over 20 of the 1969 models left......and was very interested in 'dealer trading' one or more of them..........

 

by the way ....submitted for your consideration.........

You DO realize the enormity of the job ahead of us..........

Think about this: there is very little I can get everyone on this board to agree to......and this board would be what I'd consider to be the 'hard core' enthusiast.

Now.....we have to make this new Camaro appeal to a much wider audience.........so there are decisions that may not be popular to one group...but very popular to another....

................that means we need choices.........


(and that should make you happy!)


........ If you think about it.......really truly think about it....there WERE some choices with the late 4th gens.......we just had to do those choices 'under the radar' -- and thus, the Berger/Earnhardt/Tom Henry/Carl Black/Hot Rod edition Camaros/Firebirds......and the various SLP options and content......but with no advertising dollars.......well........not an easy job! And because they WERE under the radar - they were at the top of the price spectrum....... (but it IS interesting that we had to put a lot of money on the hood of the base V6...yet could not build enough SSs with all the toys!)

I can hear it now: "..I have the answer!!!".........uhm....maybe and maybe not....

All that said.......you can believe that I lurk a lot ....and am listening a lot....and there are others that lurk and listen

I would ask you to keep an open mind -- just as you'd ask me (us) to keep an open mind.........

Keep the stuff coming.........

 

 

Which I would say points out the weakness of the 4th gen,

The SS with all the toys represented the never say die Camaro long time (and mostly older) enthusiast wanting the top Camaro the way the Cobra (and now the GT500) represents that of the Mustang buyers.

However, when you get to the base model of these cars, the car has to stand on it's own merits. The fact the V6 Camaro needed a ton of money on the hood is telling. Take the engine out of the equasion, and.......

don't think that's going to be a problem around here.

 

I'm sorry but that is a freakin' cop-out. I was born in 1965, yet I know the significance of the Shelbys, the Yenkos, the Hemis. etc. I also know of the 57 Chevies and the early Corvettes. Just because I was born after the fact, or was 5 years old when musclecars were in their heyday, has no bearing on my knowledge of automotive history. To justify today's youth not having knowledge of automotive history, simply because it was before their time is a lame excuse and goes to show how screwed up society has become.

There was a world before 1979. Just because you weren't around doesn't mean it didn't exist.

 

Well when your history comes from something called Fast & Furious, or 2Fast & 2Furious, or Gone in 60 Seconds. Hell look at what Mad Max and The Road Warrior did for the world! Who doesn't harbor a secret desire for a roots type blower with an on/off switch! Or the RPM enhancing capabilties of Nitro!

 

 

Depends on what you mean by famous. There were a little over 200 Yenkos to begin with and if the movie made the car famous, that should mean that it wasnt famous before hand. That would mean that a real Yenko should be affordable enough to use for the movie. From what I understand the car in the movie wasnt even a big block. The movie created new interest yes. Made famous, not by a long shot...


Im 30

 

I didn’t want to hijack this thread (and I couldn’t figure out how to post a scan from my personal brochure collection), but now that traffic has died down, and I found a link…

The answer is:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1981-...36218297QQrdZ1

Can someone explain how Ford was able to market this car as an “SS”? I believe the only SS model Chevy had in 1981 was the El Camino Super Sport, but I would still imagine GM’s lawyers had a thing or two to tell Ford about trademark infringement.

 

My only guess is that it is an ad from a foreign country? I've never seen nor heard of an Escort SS before, in person or otherwise.

 

I remember seeing that ad, and maybe one or two on the road at the time. Seems like a pretty forgettable package.

 

Copyrights and trademarks are registered for a certain time period, and they expire. If they are not maintained and re-upped by the holder, they become fair game to the public at-large.

I do not know for certain, but if GM let the copyright lapse on the "SS" moniker, it could have been registered and used by Ford... legitimately.

If you long-timers on this board recall, I was the one who broke the news about Shelby renewing their rights for GT, GT350, GT500, and numerous other badges over a year before the announcement of the GT500 came out.

Similarly, it was a lapse of the name "Cobra" that allowed Ford to steal it from Shelby after they split-up in 1971. Cobra was used until 1982 as Cobra, King Cobra, Cobra II, and others.

Letter names are dicey at best though. Take "GT" for example. If I simply say "GT" to a gearhead, does he think Mustang GT? I do. It has been on Mustangs since 1964, and in my opinion it BELONGS to the Mustang. But a Toyota guy might think of a Celica GT. Isn't there a few Pontiacs with the GT trim package too? So does "SS" belong to Chevy any more than "GT" belongs to Ford?

It's one of those things that makes you go "Hmmm..." .

 

This discussion brings back memories. I'm sure I've mentioned before my old high school buddy who in 1985 traded is 1980 Z/28 in for a brand new Ford Escort GT. He thought that thing was the baddest car on the road. Even tried picking a street race one night with some guy in a brand new black Buick sedan because it reminded him of his mom's car. I tried to explain to him what a GNX was, but the guy refused to listen.

 

Thats funny