Mustang. Submitted for your thoughts.......
Thread Starter
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 13,713
From: The Golden State
Mustang. Submitted for your thoughts.......
..... has anyone stopped long enough to notice how many versions of the Mustang will proliferate during the 2007 calender & 2008 model year!! 
Let this soak in.
1. You'll have the base V6 Mustang.
2. You'll have the "Pony" Mustang (the V6 with alot of GT appearence items & smaller grill foglamps).
3. There's the California Mustang (similar to the Pony, & available in 50 states).
4. There's the "Midwest" Mustang (like the pony, but available in... the midwest).
5. There's the Mustang GT.
6. There's the Mustang Shelby GT.
7. The Bullitt Mustang will be out in 2007 calendar year.
8. The new Boss Mustang will be out in a year or so (basically a Mach 1 with different stripes).
9. The Shelby Mustang GT500
That's NINE known versions!!!
(not counting convertibles!)
You can have just about everything save the GT500 in a stick or an automatic.
The GT you have a choice of at least 3 different rim styles.
You can get manual rollup windows if you want.
Don't know about you, but seeing this many versions of the Mustang makes me REALLY want to rip the frigging arm off of and beat over the head the next person with a crack about how V6s are for women, how Camaro would sell more if only they had more horsepower, or starts another debate about how the SS should be over the Z28 or vice versa. Anyone saying Camaro should be a "No-Compromise performance car" should simply be shot on sight!!!!!
It's really sad that even though the Camaro has long been dead, and Ford (as screwed up as they are) is actually a genious with marketing the Mustang to the widest range of people imaginable, there are people who still don't get why Ford is mopping up the market with the Mustang.
The G35 coupe is a speck next to Mustang's numbers and the profit Ford makes on them. Everyone has either owned or had a close friend or family member who's owned a Mustang. No FWD import comes clsoe in sales numbers or diverse demographics. The Dodge Challenger is simply going to be a better GTO (loaded, and above $30K).
Ford can still make money selling just 90K Mustangs per year (they are running 160-170K now). The new and more-expensive-to-make IRS Camaro is going to cost GM so much to make that the basic structure is going to need to run well over 100K per year to be profitable (consider this the 1st clue Camaro isn't going to be the only coupe
).
Bottom line:
Camaro NEEDS to appeal to a broad market to even be in the game!
Sure, Camaro will be a sellout the 1st year. It wil, continue to be a strong seller the 2nd year. But if it's going to survive, it needs long-term chops. That's only going to come by making special versions of it that go beyond just a set of decals. GM is going to have to ignore some of the more "vocal" people here & realize that lots of guys buy V6s because they can't afford insurence, but still customize. GM is going to need to see that the way to get the money of people who want something different is a series of limited edition cars that serve a specialized function (ie: a dragstrip designed Camaro like the Mustang Mach 1, a track designed Camaro like the last Cobra, or a obnoxious high level car & a throwback car like the Shelby GT500 & Shelby GT respectively).
If GM brings out a V6 Camaro, a Camaro SS, then a Z28, and calls it a day, I wouldn't bank on there being a 6th gen Camaro. A few years (and a restyled Mustang, along with another round of "special" models) and Camaro is toast.
Here's to the hope GM is listening.
BTW:
There's this thing called the Ford Racing Performance Pack that's available on Mustangs.
The FR1, FR2, and FR3.
FR1 is a garage doable package that includes exhaust, a mass airflow meter, and calerbration for premium fuel.
FR2 (Drag Pack) includes 4.10 gears, headers, shifter, and the FR1 MAF meter & calabration.
FR3 is the Handling Pack. Includes shocks, springs, strut bracing, rollbars, etc. All derived from the FR500C race car.
..... AND if you purchase through the National Mustang Racing Association, they'll cover your fee for 1 of the NMRA or FFW races that year!
This is just the tip of the iceberg from the factory... and I'm excluding the aftermarket!
Chevrolet is going to need to get SERIOUS about Camaro.
Again, hope they're listening.
http://www.fordracingparts.com/perfo...cepackages.asp
Let this soak in.
1. You'll have the base V6 Mustang.
2. You'll have the "Pony" Mustang (the V6 with alot of GT appearence items & smaller grill foglamps).
3. There's the California Mustang (similar to the Pony, & available in 50 states).
4. There's the "Midwest" Mustang (like the pony, but available in... the midwest).
5. There's the Mustang GT.
6. There's the Mustang Shelby GT.
7. The Bullitt Mustang will be out in 2007 calendar year.
8. The new Boss Mustang will be out in a year or so (basically a Mach 1 with different stripes).
9. The Shelby Mustang GT500
That's NINE known versions!!!
(not counting convertibles!)
You can have just about everything save the GT500 in a stick or an automatic.
The GT you have a choice of at least 3 different rim styles.
You can get manual rollup windows if you want.
Don't know about you, but seeing this many versions of the Mustang makes me REALLY want to rip the frigging arm off of and beat over the head the next person with a crack about how V6s are for women, how Camaro would sell more if only they had more horsepower, or starts another debate about how the SS should be over the Z28 or vice versa. Anyone saying Camaro should be a "No-Compromise performance car" should simply be shot on sight!!!!!
It's really sad that even though the Camaro has long been dead, and Ford (as screwed up as they are) is actually a genious with marketing the Mustang to the widest range of people imaginable, there are people who still don't get why Ford is mopping up the market with the Mustang.
The G35 coupe is a speck next to Mustang's numbers and the profit Ford makes on them. Everyone has either owned or had a close friend or family member who's owned a Mustang. No FWD import comes clsoe in sales numbers or diverse demographics. The Dodge Challenger is simply going to be a better GTO (loaded, and above $30K).
Ford can still make money selling just 90K Mustangs per year (they are running 160-170K now). The new and more-expensive-to-make IRS Camaro is going to cost GM so much to make that the basic structure is going to need to run well over 100K per year to be profitable (consider this the 1st clue Camaro isn't going to be the only coupe
).Bottom line:
Camaro NEEDS to appeal to a broad market to even be in the game!
Sure, Camaro will be a sellout the 1st year. It wil, continue to be a strong seller the 2nd year. But if it's going to survive, it needs long-term chops. That's only going to come by making special versions of it that go beyond just a set of decals. GM is going to have to ignore some of the more "vocal" people here & realize that lots of guys buy V6s because they can't afford insurence, but still customize. GM is going to need to see that the way to get the money of people who want something different is a series of limited edition cars that serve a specialized function (ie: a dragstrip designed Camaro like the Mustang Mach 1, a track designed Camaro like the last Cobra, or a obnoxious high level car & a throwback car like the Shelby GT500 & Shelby GT respectively).
If GM brings out a V6 Camaro, a Camaro SS, then a Z28, and calls it a day, I wouldn't bank on there being a 6th gen Camaro. A few years (and a restyled Mustang, along with another round of "special" models) and Camaro is toast.
Here's to the hope GM is listening.
BTW:
There's this thing called the Ford Racing Performance Pack that's available on Mustangs.
The FR1, FR2, and FR3.
FR1 is a garage doable package that includes exhaust, a mass airflow meter, and calerbration for premium fuel.
FR2 (Drag Pack) includes 4.10 gears, headers, shifter, and the FR1 MAF meter & calabration.
FR3 is the Handling Pack. Includes shocks, springs, strut bracing, rollbars, etc. All derived from the FR500C race car.
..... AND if you purchase through the National Mustang Racing Association, they'll cover your fee for 1 of the NMRA or FFW races that year!
This is just the tip of the iceberg from the factory... and I'm excluding the aftermarket!
Chevrolet is going to need to get SERIOUS about Camaro.
Again, hope they're listening.
http://www.fordracingparts.com/perfo...cepackages.asp
Last edited by guionM; Dec 13, 2006 at 02:29 AM.
Registered User
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 561
From: Ventura County, CA
Wow. I really didn't care about all the base trim packages until you mentioned the Ford Racing Performance Packs. Getting 4.10's installed from the factory is just plain awesome. Chevrolet WILL need to get super serious in order to compete this time around. The 3 basic trim levels aren't going to cut it at all, unless each of the 3 is completely customizable, similar to that of the 1st gens. (When you could get an RS SS, those were cool.)
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 13,713
From: The Golden State
The dealers will happily install it or any Ford package for you after you've bought your car.
Compare that to Chevy dealers that won't even disconnect daytime running lights after you bought your car.
Last edited by guionM; Dec 13, 2006 at 02:34 AM.
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,724
From: Hebron, KY
And the lineup may get bigger:
http://web.camaross.com/forums/showthread.php?t=490080
http://web.camaross.com/forums/showthread.php?t=490080
Registered User
Joined: Jun 1999
Posts: 426
From: Birmingham, AL, USA
Hmmmm Wouldn't a Firebird give GM at least three more variations on the platform. Yeah, yeah, I know no Firebird! GM doesn't want to overlap products just ignore G5/Cobalt, Torrent/Equonox in Pontiac's lineup (no overlap there!). Hey, at least Vibe doesn't overlap with another GM product (Toyota yes but GM no).
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,022
From: Newhall, CA USA
Finally getting back to the 60's again! Now, if you could get more than a handful of exterior and interior colors, I'd be happy (or if you could get the red interior on anything other than boring exterior colors, or if they had a blue interior option, or . . .)
Registered User
Joined: Nov 1999
Posts: 146
From: South Jersey
The GM Performance parts catalog was nothing compared to Fords equvilant when the F cars were still being made. What did they offer ? An aluminum driveshaft, Corvette calipers, ground effects? I know theres alot more(Hot cam, LS6/LS4 parts ) But Fords catalog blew them away in a F-bod/mustang comparison.
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 249
From: casselberry ,FL
don't forget all those aftermarket tuner mustangs you can get through your ford dealer(roush,steeda and saleen)with a full ford warranty.And theres also a FRPP whipple supercharger available now also.
as for Firebird,that may be a very BIG mistake not to make one.I have no intentions to leave mustang,but a firebird based on the concept camaro( like some of the photoshops I've seen with the '77-'78 nose)would be very tempting for me.My second car was a '77 T/A.Keep it lean and mean,not like the bloated looking last gen.
as for Firebird,that may be a very BIG mistake not to make one.I have no intentions to leave mustang,but a firebird based on the concept camaro( like some of the photoshops I've seen with the '77-'78 nose)would be very tempting for me.My second car was a '77 T/A.Keep it lean and mean,not like the bloated looking last gen.
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,646
From: Portland, OR
That's what I was thinkng. It's not hard to point out the Mustang's success with all the special editions, but...What do you do with the Camaro?
...there was no iconic movie save 'Gumball Rally', and that doesn't show up on too many radars....
...never had a rental package....
...never had the iconic model like 'Boss'....
OK, sure let marketing loose and every year we'll have the 'California Camaro', or 'Rt. 66 Special', 'Dixie Delight' or 'Disco Decedance'(I dunno...I hate marketing but I'm pretty sure they'd think this crap up). The only thing to really focus on today is 'SS', which is why I really think it needs to be the barn burner. I know historically SS has been luxury and performance, but historically we (detroit) have been losing for 20+ years.
Gotta think different. There are many visual changes that can be made yearly or bi-annually to cause excitement and get people to pull into the lot:
- different wheels every other year
- different rear spoilers, either intergrated or bolted on
- blacked out and body color light bezels
- white gauge faces then black, or body color matched
- different front clip every 3-4 years (or hopefully mid life)
- different lower body cladding every few years.
Now, yes I know this costs money...so does losing market share. I know some of these things makes the car less 'vanilla', which narrows its appeal. But, you'll have people constantly wondering "what'll they have next year?"
This isn't an area the Camaro can fight the Mustang head on, because quite frankly it never has been a part of 'Americana'.
...there was no iconic movie save 'Gumball Rally', and that doesn't show up on too many radars....
...never had a rental package....
...never had the iconic model like 'Boss'....
OK, sure let marketing loose and every year we'll have the 'California Camaro', or 'Rt. 66 Special', 'Dixie Delight' or 'Disco Decedance'(I dunno...I hate marketing but I'm pretty sure they'd think this crap up). The only thing to really focus on today is 'SS', which is why I really think it needs to be the barn burner. I know historically SS has been luxury and performance, but historically we (detroit) have been losing for 20+ years.
Gotta think different. There are many visual changes that can be made yearly or bi-annually to cause excitement and get people to pull into the lot:
- different wheels every other year
- different rear spoilers, either intergrated or bolted on
- blacked out and body color light bezels
- white gauge faces then black, or body color matched
- different front clip every 3-4 years (or hopefully mid life)
- different lower body cladding every few years.
Now, yes I know this costs money...so does losing market share. I know some of these things makes the car less 'vanilla', which narrows its appeal. But, you'll have people constantly wondering "what'll they have next year?"
This isn't an area the Camaro can fight the Mustang head on, because quite frankly it never has been a part of 'Americana'.
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 42
From: New Jersey
All right you old-timers, name the year this Mustang line-up was available:
1. Base 2-dr Coupe
2. Base 2-dr Fastback
3. Base 2-dr conv.
4. Grande 2-dr Coupe
5. GT 2-dr Coupe
6. GT 2-dr Fastback
7. GT 2-dr conv.
8. Mach 1 2-dr Fastback
9. Boss 302 2-dr Fastback
10. Boss 429 2-dr Fastback
11. Shelby GT-350 2-dr Fastback
12. Shelby GT-350 2-dr Conv.
13. Shelby GT-500 2-dr Fastback
14. Shelby GT-500 2-dr Conv.
The more things change the more they stay the same…
A little off-topic, but for extra credit, for one model year only, Ford actually marketed a sporty version of one of its cars as the “SS” model, with prominently displayed SS stickers on each front door (I’m sure GM loved that). Name the car and model year.
1. Base 2-dr Coupe
2. Base 2-dr Fastback
3. Base 2-dr conv.
4. Grande 2-dr Coupe
5. GT 2-dr Coupe
6. GT 2-dr Fastback
7. GT 2-dr conv.
8. Mach 1 2-dr Fastback
9. Boss 302 2-dr Fastback
10. Boss 429 2-dr Fastback
11. Shelby GT-350 2-dr Fastback
12. Shelby GT-350 2-dr Conv.
13. Shelby GT-500 2-dr Fastback
14. Shelby GT-500 2-dr Conv.
The more things change the more they stay the same…
A little off-topic, but for extra credit, for one model year only, Ford actually marketed a sporty version of one of its cars as the “SS” model, with prominently displayed SS stickers on each front door (I’m sure GM loved that). Name the car and model year.