As long as the price stays close to whatever the competition(Camaro and Challenger) is I don't have a problem with going after some of the German performance sedans/coupes in handling and what not.

 

The M3 is an excellent car to benchmark, but when Mustang and Camaro, and I guess to some extent Challenger start trying to butt heads directly in every catagory with cost being no object, you seriously have to wonder how things are going to shake out?

IMO if thats where GM, Ford, and Chrysler are headed then I'm pretty sure we will see a repeat of the Supra, and RX-7 (and nearly the ZX 300) back in the 90's. A big part of these car's appeal is their relative affordability.

Then again (and I dont really know), maybe the industry in general doesn't see where such cars can remain profitable at the production numbers they generate now and might be nessecarily moving them upscale where a bigger profit margin is to be had at the same or lower volumes?

 

I think the market will keep the prices down on the pony cars. If they go to far up in price the people would probably start choosing the M3s and others over them.

 

I don't think we're anywhere close to that. The M3 is almost twice the price of a Mustang GT. You'd have to shoot the price of a GT through the roof before someone would go from a $30k car ....to changing their mind and deciding on a $60k car.

Also, I don't believe in "prestige". If you buy a car for the "prestige", then you're at the very least a bit insecure.

People think BMW means prestige. A person may be driving a new M3 for many reasons. He worked very hard and earned it. His/Her daddy bought it for them and that particular person is worthless and never had a job in their life. A person got lucky and won the lottery.

 

Yea we are definitely not anywhere near the M3 in price. I was just saying I think the market will keep the pony cars in check price wise. I don't see them jumping up a price bracket I guess. I think they continue to follow the same trend they have been on.

 

Personally - I was going to spend 60K on a Car - it would be a Corvette. Now that's a car that has the performance capabilities to rival most of the european sports cars -which may cost nearly twice as much.

 

Seems to me like GM's mission with Corvette is being replicated by Ford with Mustang GT. Few here readily dismiss a Corvette's performance compared to sports cars costing twice as much - in fact, it's a badge of honor and something to be marveled at. Interesting that when a Mustang is producing M3-esque results we aren't quite as quick to praise. Something to keep in mind when the Porsche guys talk about Corvettes 'only' being Corvettes.

I say, good for Ford - damn impressive. And another kick in the seat of the Camaro team's pants, which can only be good for us.

 

You could say the same thing about Mustang, right?

 

It sure is. And I think some may miss the point on this one. Benchmarking the M3 doesn't mean that Mustang or Camaro should become $60,000 higher end coupes. It means getting great feel into your pony car. Great steering, braking, chassis dynamics. That sort of thing. What's wrong with that? Nothing...that's what.

Ford benchmarked the M3 for the 2011 Mustang and delivered a better product for it. Too bad GM's fixation was on benchmarking mainly the 2005 Mustang.

 

Yep, truth! Unfortunately the naysayers still refuse to admit Ford beat Chevy this turn, kind of embarrassing the excuses I have read the past few weeks. Looks like the forums are full of the next generation of Iraqi information officers aka Baghdad Bob's. The douches that drive M3's will still drive them no matter what Ford or Gm throw out there, BMW is a stauts symbol for people who want to show they've made a little money. I'm all about the best bang for the buck which is why I've had Mustangs, Z28's, SRT-4's, Cobalt SS's , etc... Who ever makes the best contraption with the most performance for the least money normally gets my dollar. I love Camaro's but I'm not blind to see the better car.

 

Maybe so, by a small margin.

I still want to see a "track pack" for the Camaro to level the field. The Camaro already has the brakes to match / exceed the Mustang's. I'd like to see 275s up front (like they had for all the SS / WS6 4th gens) to match the rears, unless the rears are made even wider, along with a more aggressive suspension setup.

 

Some of the excuses have been down right embarrassing.

 

How much of a margin would be considered adequate for you? I mean when the Mustang was 2-4 tenths behind the Camaro the Chevy was killing it but now the times have switched and it's a small margin. Mustang has been clocked by Motortrend 0-60 in 4.3, Camaro has never been near that, on the street the Mustang will rip a Camaro stoplight to stoplight, equal drivers of course. I've heard about every excuse that could be thought of the past few weeks to the point that has turned into just negating how badly the Mustang beats the Camaro because basically the Camaro is beaten by the Ford in every performance category. Let's see, which car is faster, handles better, stops better, weighs less, better visibility, etc... Yeah the Camaro looks better but that's not a performance category. As for the track pack, it's not gonna make it handle as well as the Mustang just because of the weight of the car. As for the Brembo's not being standard on the Mustang the standard brakes were only 2 feet longer on stops from 60 than the Brembo's. From personal experience with brembo's on my car they are actually worse than standard brakes unless they are to temp not to mention they squeel like a banshee when they are cold you come to a stop. When it's raining they completely suck unless you get them hot. Brembo's are really meant for tracking, Corvette does fine without them.

 

Why are M3 drivers "douches?" Do you have any meaningful time behind the wheel of a M3 or even a 3 series? They're definitely great "driver's cars."

 

Dude I live in the BMW capital of the US. I worked at the factory, been in the cars around the track, and every other person in town drives one, there is a special type of person that I usually see driving the M3's, most of them fit the "douche" category. Although there are douche's that drive the lesser BMW's. Had one the other day that was holding me up going 30 in a 45mph for several miles and I couldn't pass because of traffic(two lane rd) I guess he was a 40 something bussiness guy. We get the the stoplight(two lane road) I'm still behind him and he decides he wants to show off his car and rips out of the hole so I punch it and catch up by the top of 2nd and I can see his eyes in his mirrors big as saucers that his german car has been run down by a $20k Cobalt, lol! He took the first turn off and tore off after that. Most of the people that live here and work there drive the 330's and convertible's. It's the recent transplants from Northern and Western states I see driving the M3's.