Correct me if I'm wrong, I'm getting what was stated officially confiused with rumors, but....

Wasn't it official that the VE chassie will come out in 06/07???

Wasn't it official that once the VE chassie comes out, no Monaro???

So if all that was officially stated, why would Holden produce the Gto on the old chassie just for the US, when they will already be producing cars on the new VE chassie???

so we should have a new NA Gto in 06/07.

 

Logic would dictate just that since that makes the most sense. Especially since it is Holden that is handling GTO production and not Pontiac. Would 18k units even warrant this? I don't think so.

You never know corporate mentality though. Ford of America is intent on selling us the same old focus, while the euro market gets a whole new and better plarform and focus. But GM isn't as cash strapped as Ford, nor is the American focus built over in Europe. I know it's an entirely different matter, but my point is you never know what the crazy bean-counters are dreaming up of.

 

Holden isn't "controlling" GM's new RWD production. They were assigned to develop it because they have the proven ability to create models quickly, and have been producing RWD vehicles for quite awhile. Also, if GM/NA had to do a new RWD chassis themselves, they probally wouldn't get to it till late in the decade (there is only a certain number of engineers, and they already have their plate full). Opel engineered the chassis used by Ion & soon Colbalt.

Production of the "sigma-lite" RWD chassis will definately occur in both the North America AND Australia. That is the one thing that is 100% about this. As for GTO, it's married to the Monaro. There is a realistic possibility of it being produced in Australia, but that isn't likely since Chevrolet seems to also be involved in this, and Chevrolet means volume.

As for Holden's plant in Elizibeth, it is going through a major expansion which is due to be finished sometime next year. The expansion is due to Holden's ambitious export plans that include cars for the US and cars sold under their own name around the world.

As mentioned, the plant is operating almost beyond it's capacity just to make 18,000 GTOs for the US. Even with the expansion, there's no way they could make anything in greater numbers than say a Corvette for the US market. Also, even if they could, keep in mind these new RWD cars are replacing models made in North America. I believe there is a stipulation in the UAW contracts about that.

There will be models made there for GM/NA, the only question is what models. I'm guessing El Camino if the tarriffs are dropped, since NA makes nothing like it & it's sales wouldn't be tremendous by US standards.

Holden's VE and GM/NA's full size cars are being designed simultanously in both Australia and the US linked together by a cyberspace design & engineering network General Motors set up. There is a joint GM/Holden-GM/NA team here that is/was working on business cases to decide which variations to produce here. Both cars will be ready at the same time, minus whatever labor, vendor, or factory issues that need to be hammered out in each respective country, and timing the end of models to be replaced. It's not out of the question that a "sigma-lite" debut in a brand here before it debuts in at Holden.

Meanwhile, back to Camaro. There is plenty of info on it already unless you are looking for the blueprints or design details, which you simply aren't going to get. We know it's comming back in time for it's 40th anniversairy, we know it will have a high powered V8 version, we know it will have IRS across the board, we know it will seat 4. Indications are it will share a sigma based platform with the next GTO, if not the body. Before the C6 pictures came out, you could say we knew the same amount about the next Corvette, so we know all that we could reasonably expect to know about Camaro at the moment.

 

Really? That is great news! But when did we nail that down as fact or at least close enough to fact that we'll call it?

I always assumed this'd be the case, but ....

(I think I missed something major)

 

....this past weekend...Branden's article on GMInsider about the 2007 Camaro has some good info....

 

That one got nailed to the wall quite a while back.

Say goodbye to exploding 10-bolts, and a big "HELLO" to aftermarket half-shafts!

 

Maybe this happened when I was away on the honeymoon... I didnt get a chance to read all the threads when I got back... too many.

I'll do a search for a thread unless someone has a link ot it??

 

I missed that as well. That is great news!!!!

I'm laughing at Ford now for sticking the GT and base guys with ancient live-axles. Is there even any modern car with a live-axle setup??

I already knew that it'd be back by 07. By looking at the past camaro's, i also knew that it would have to have a high powered v8 version and seat 4 since that is pretty much encoded within the camaro DNA. It would have to carry off where the 4th gen camaro left off. I didn't know about the IRS though.

When i said there wasn't much info earlier on it, I meant some of the details (like styling). I guess 2007 is still a good 3 model years away and more will leak out as we get closer.

 

While I think you have an educated guess, I think its a little too early to say "we know" anything about any future Camaro.

 

ALL future General Motors rear wheel drive cars will have independent rear suspension. That comes from GM itself.

Also you old timers will remember this quote from someone here awhile back (roughly 3 years ago):

"I'm not at liberty to say, but can you say 'Sigma'!"

Yep, I do have a long memory.

 

I certainly remember the "Think Sigma" lines that were dropped. I thought there were several factors which had all-but ruled out full-blown Sigma use on the F5 though. (Cadillac exclusvisity, fire wall height, cost, etc)

I guess you could take that as a tease for "Sigma-Lite" though...

 

Not to open a new can o' worms....but I've been getting some tidbits over the past few months. Maybe we can help fill them in.


Holden is developing the VE. Holden would prefer that the VE is another evolution of the GM2800 platform, NOT SIGMA, because their plant is already configured to build them.

GMNA wants a low cost Sigma.....call it Sigma Mass or Sigma Lite...NOT a GM2800 derivative.

GMNA also wants to use the C-flex assemly process it uses to assemble the CTS....to assemble future RWD cars like Camaro, GTO, etc., here in North America.

Holden CAN'T use the C-flex system in it's current plant, unless it guts and re-fits....very expensive.

I'm not sure if these factions have reached any agreement.


That's one of the reasons I've been so interested on if Camaro will have front McPherson struts.

As far as I can see....front struts mean Holden's proposal wins and Camaro is an evolution of GM2800. No struts means GMNA's proposal wins and Camaro is an evolution of Sigma.

Anyone want to guess who I'm rooting for?

 

That was my original understanding, that the VE was GM2800 with sigma suspension.


Mickey T would be the best person to say if the VE will be sigma or GM2800 based as I sure he has more contacts in Holden than any of us do.

Holden current plant, from what I have heard, isn't state of the art. I'm sure they would like it to be upgraded if GM pays for it :P But the change over from GM2800 to sigma-lite would be the big problem as the elizabeth plant is Holden's only, so if it goes offline there are no commodores being sold. I don't know enought about the plant to know if changing one line at a time would be possible.

I hadn't heard of the C-flex system before. Mickey T can you please look into that for one of the future editions. Could be an interesting story there


Again from what I have read in the Australian 'Motor Magazine' it will get sigma suspension with pressed steel parts instead of aluminum.


Any info from Mickey T would probably tell you the answer.

 

Why wouldn't australia and us production start at the same time?

 

I was guessing that Holden would start first to work out the bugs in the new platform