Size would be the biggest way to make Camaro and MC different. I still think Chevy can have two RWD Coupes (not including the Corvette) Have the MC be the bigger coupe and the Camaro be the smaller sporty coupe. but I also don;t think that at this time Chevy can make the MC RWD only because I don;t see the Malibu becoming a coupe anytime soon, and like it;s been said, some people just prefer a fwd car.

 

Actually, Ford's plan of coming out with RWD for the masses went up in smoke 2 years ago with their meltdown.

A Ford Five Hundred-like was supposed to be based off a cheaper RWD DEW when 1st proposed about 3 years ago. Instead, it's based off a FWD Volvo.

I wouldn't expect a volume Ford (outside of Mustang) to be produced before 2008. The "Panther" cars, the Thunderbird and the Lincoln LS will be redesigned next year, but will keep the same chassis (though the new Bird will return in a "different" form).

Actually, the only people who say FWD vs RWD is an issue typically learned to drive in the late 80s or later.

Actually, I don't have a southern state in my post, and I learned to drive in the hills of Pennsylvania in a 1972 Impala (mom's car). I went to college for a year in North Carolina and got to experience 1st hand "Ice Storms". Also, I'd like to hear what Virginians say about the insinuation it doesn't snow.

The cars I had back then (after my moms Impala & my dad's 77 Caprice) were a 1967 Camaro, a 1973 F100 2wd pickup, and a 1975 Malibu....without positraction!) were all RWD.

I frequently made trips to Reno when I lived in San Francisco (including in the winter), and I'd say once every 3 trips that time of year, I'd see 1 SUV off the road, and I had no problem blowing by FWD cars with either my Mustang 5.0 with snow tires, or my Thunderbird SC with chains, and a bit of common sense.

BTW: if you think all California is always clear & sunny, or doesn't snow, I'll be glad to take ya on a San Fran to Reno run on I-80, a LA to Vegas run on I-15, a LA to Phenoix run on I-10, or even a LA to San Fran run up I-5 through the Grapevine in the winter (with either my RWD T-bird SC or my RWD Z28) to help clear this misconception up for ya.

 

guion,

I never said you couldn't drive RWD in the snow...and yes, I did learn to drive in the mid '90s.

But my dad learned to drive around the same time you did, and he would NEVER buy RWD for a year-round vehicle...not with all the FWD cars around. When I told him W's had a chance to go RWD a few months back, his response was "I sure as hell hope not." Like he said, the mass market doesn't care that their car is not RWD. Many like it that way. My grandfather's first FWD car was his '95 LeSabre...he won't go back to RWD either.

Can you drive RWD in the snow? YES. Is it as good as FWD? Absolutely NOT. Take the same snows, throw them on an F body and a FWD car, and see what happens. Wait...I did I had 4 Firestone Winterfires (the rears studded) for my '89 RS, and drove it 4 winters...car was very good to me. I never got stuck. When I got my '02 Grand Am GT, I put 4 Winterfires on that one too for the winter. Not studded. Know what? That car was a friggen billy-goat...far better than the RS without the studs.

Yeah, you can do it, and I have. Its just like I said...a lot of us don't want to do it anymore, should we have the choice! And as long as GM makes FWD coupes for me to buy for drivers....I will. And so will people like my dad, who learned to drive when Nixon was in office, contrary to your above statement

 

One more thing...

Personally, I like the idea of a RWD Monte SS from the "coolness" factor. It would add flair to the car, and definitely aid sales down south, especially to Nascar wannabes...

But, leaving it FWD may be enough to allow GM justification to make 2 coupes...a Camaro and a Monte. And THAT, to me, is more important than which wheels drive a Monte.

Now, if we were talking Camaro...I'd rather poke my own eyes out than drive a FWD F bod

 

Having driven both my Camaros year-round in Ohio (the 89 RS for 4 years, the 99 Z28 for 3 years), I have to say I don't have any issues with driving RWD in the snow.

The advantage FWD has is getting started in the snow... once moving, there's not a whole lot of difference, and I think it is easier to correct in RWD is you should lose control.

With the advent of Traction Control, and Stability Control programs, there are even fewer reasons to pass on RWD in snow...

Like it's been said though, the public's mind has been programmed by the manufacturers for 20+ years now that FWD = good in the snow, and 4WD = invincible in the snow... and that is why I think you see so many SUV's in the ditch now... people think they can't lose control.

 

Even my V6 Camaro didn't hold a candle to my FWD '95 Taurus in the snow. FWD's own in the winter compared to RWD. And to us where it snows 4 - 5 months of the year, that matters. You can either "make do" w/ a RWD car and fear little things that will make you spin out or loose control or you can feel safe and drive w/out worrying about a patch of ice w/ a FWD car.

Its not just a misconception by the public. At least not on my part. I've driven all kinds of cars in the snow and know how they stack up against eachother. 4x4 trucks are untouchable by comparison to anything else.

 

Tires make a big difference in snow. While I can't get to the end of my cul-di-sack in my SS with its 315s, my buddy had no problem driving through 4"+ of snow here recently in his 86 GT with 3.55s.

 

You guys are crazy. Not only do I think RWD is fine in the winter but I highly prefer it. FWD makes you feel comfy enough when it's easy to get moving but once you lose control at speed you're just along for the ride. RWD is very controllable if you know what you're doing.... I guess that's the biggest problem, most people really don't understand the simple fundamentals

Every now and then we do get the white stuff here in Wisconsin

Even my mom handles RWD in this fun weather without issues I know several people that run their f-bodies year round as well, it's all in the tires.

FWD just isn't comfortable for me in any weather.

 

This topic of RWD and snow was also going on in the thread "Death of the F-Body from someone who sold them" or close to it.

Like I said in that thread, If put some weight in the back of the Camaro, I have no problem with snow. With the limited slip axle and traction control and some weight over the rear you are good to go in a Camaro Z28.
RP also posted that they did some tests with the Camaro in the snow with 150lbs of weight in the back. The Camaro went in the snow were the FWD Impala and MC would not.

 

When my dad had his Pinto wagon, he would just put chain on. I know they arnt allowed every where, but they help some too. Also, what about all the Crown Vics the police have? I have seen them in snow and ice. Granted they have a few more hundred lbs to help them out, but it just kind of drives home the point that RWD isnt that bad in snow. I'm sure those cars are not too far from the weight of a RWD MC or Imp. One thing to remember also is that these cars will weight a lot more then a Camaro.

 

Whoa whoa whoa guys...wait a minute here. Has anyone said "RWD sucks, it doesn't go in snow"??? C'mon now...

Darth,
I agree, if stability control programs and traction control continue to advance, we may see little, if any difference. But, it hasn't happened yet, at least when you compare GMs RWD vehicles (mainly F body) to any of their FWD cars. It definitely could get there, but I don't see it yet...you may agree.

Meccadeath,
Where it snows 4-5 months a year, you know it, I know it, so help me preach it a little

mastrdriver,
Indeed, you are very correct. I know if I put studded snows on my Z, versus GSCs, I'm gonna do ok. The point I was making is, if you put studded snows on a FWD car (same tires now), you can go where the SUVs will get stuck. Studs on a FWD car are amazing...on RWD, its just making it livable. Mind you, I am talking more than just 4" of snow...I mean over a foot, ice, you name it.

Buttercup,
Maybe I'm crazy, but I plan to not lose control in the first place I have driven in 7 winters now, and never once have I lost control, whether it was RWD with snows, FWD with snows, FWD without snows, whatever. If I have a choice, gimme FWD all the way. I know in FWD when it starts spinning, you lose control of both steering and throttle...for some reason, this has never been an issue for me. Getting up a hill with RWD even with studded snows? That's ALWAYS been an issue around here Sure, I did it...rather not have to though, and that's the point here!

Some of you guys are missing the point. Yes, RWD does go in snow. Yes, before 1980, pretty much everything on the road was RWD. NO ONE IS ARGUING THIS FACT. But, for those of us in heavy snow country who have driven both, many feel FWD is better. Young, old, experienced, inexperienced, whatever. Yes, RWD will do it...just many of us feel FWD does it BETTER.

Tires help, but throw the same tires on any FWD car, and then compare. I have, I did, and IMO, when its snowing out and theres a foot or more on the roads, or ice, or even 6+ inches, gimme FWD.

 

You might have had me till you said a FWD car can go places where a SUV would get stuck. You're going waaaay overboard now.

Quote:

Maybe I'm crazy, but I plan to not lose control in the first place

I'm sure there are plenty of people who wrapped themselves around a pole or guardrail who didn't plan to as well.



I'd like to see any car easily navigate when there's a foot or more of snow on the roads.

I'm glad you conceed that when you loose control of a FWD car thats it, vs RWD where you still have control. Just the same, I'm glad you haven't been in a dangerous situation where you lost control of your front wheels where you needed the ability to control the rears.

But saying that it snows where you live so FWD is mandatory is like saying it rains so you shouldn't get a convertible. How many days does it actually snow where you are where you need FWD that doesn't stop all traffic that isn't an AWD, SUVs, or 4wd trucks?

 

Interesting ...this is precisely the reason I have a passionate dislike for FWD.


We got caught in a surprise snow storm in Yosemite Park, in the Camaro, with the KD's on (tobogans, the tow truck operator called them). Let's just say I gained a whole new respect for those that deal with snow and hills/mountains and realized that snow on the prairies is no big deal.

 

I like how this thread is going. We have a bunch of people talking about snow, and the areas they live in barely get 10 inches of snow a year tops, if at all! Hahaha! Come on up by me. Come over and move the cars off the lot with me when it snows like it does UP HERE. Try to tell me what is better in the snow then.

I all seriousness, as was said earlier, the main differance is off a stop. FWD has the weight over the wheels. RWD doesn't. RWD will then slip where FWD will not (as much) off a stop. That's why I would have to shove your rear out of the littlest of snow from a stop with a RWD car (considering a fair amount of snow and ice buildup).

UP HERE, about 90% of vehicles are 4x4 trucks and SUV's. About 40% of them use the 4x4. Is 4x4 needed often? Unless you plan on really going off the beaten path, no.

This arguement about FWD and RWD is going nowhere. It's really about what is going to sell. Not an arguement about RWD vs FWD. It is the public that will decide whether or not to except RWD as safe enough for true mass production again. It's going to take a while up here.

 

I never said anything about studded tires. Snow tires yes. Also with traction control, RWD becomes very livable. I have a friend with a 99 Z with ASR and said that and the tires he had he felt like he could go anywhere. He even had a manual. He swears by traction control. Now, you do have one point, over a foot of snow, ice, and you name it will probably stop just about any RWD car, but how many cars do you of that will drive in over a foot of any of that? I dont even think my Beretta has that much clearance.

90 Turbo, about 75% of the vehicals around here are SUVs, and we hardly have what most people would consider harsh winters. I am still conviced that the only reason that people buy SUVs and Trucks are so they don't lose in an accident.

If anyone wants proof that RWD works in winter, look at SUVs and Trucks. Some of these vehicals that you see have 4x4, but they almost never use them on the street and never use them for just leaving the light in snow. I have a friend that had a 4x4 Sonoma, and he never used it in the ice we had and he didnt even have a thing in the bed. Besides, most the cars I see in the ditch around here during the winter are FWD cars.