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Old Oct 23, 2006 | 09:30 AM
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Monaro???

http://www.carpoint.com.au/car-review/2120269.aspx


Words - Joe Kenwright



Forget what you may have read elsewhere, it now looks almost certain Monaro will play a part in the future of GM affiliates here and in the US


While Holden’s new Ute and Commodore Sports Wagon were always destined to see production (see separate story here), Monaro’s future has been less certain. Now CarPoint can report exclusively that there is light at the end of the tunnel for the iconic Aussie nameplate. But don’t expect the ‘new’ Monaro to be a carbon-copy of the old

Indeed, top of Holden’s VE wishlist (but dependent on strong sales acceptance of a VE sedan range, then ute and sports wagon), CarPoint has confirmed VE Monaro reached final clay stage, or perhaps even early tooling before it was killed off.

According to those who saw it, it was stunner in the same tradition as the recent generation coupe.

Holden sources say disappointment that the car will never see the light of day is huge in some quarters. Yet insiders are adamant that it will not be dusted off and put into production as the market has already moved on. A VE Monaro would need to reflect a totally different market and timing they say.

So how did the VE Monaro get so far and then be so abruptly abandoned? At the time it was being finalised in 2002-03, there was powerful sentiment around the Monaro with a strong baby boomer buyer base reliving past Monaro glories. There was also great hope that the Pontiac GTO version would be a big sales winner.

Just as all these factors needed to come together to support a convincing business case for the VE replacement, the Monaro picture unravelled in several key areas.

After an initial buying spurt from a limited older buyer base, V2 Monaro sales almost stalled exposing the hefty entry price and lack of appeal that kept younger buyers away.

Clearance staff offers kept it alive until the VZ’s arrival. Then the Americans were so underwhelmed by its soft engines and presentation, that many saw the Aussie Monaro as an insult as a replacement for the hallowed Pontiac GTO heritage.

The Americans were proved correct after US-market revisions kick-started a massive local VZ Monaro sales revival locally that was still running red hot right to the end. Even export sales improved enough to consider a replacement.

However, there was an interim period when VE Monaro had no internal champion especially when Pontiac was not sticking its hand up for a replacement as pre-facelift export GTO models stockpiled in holding yards.

Against a backdrop of GM austerity, Holden had to kill off the VE Monaro and assign valuable resources to more profitable projects.

There is now a wildcard that has changed all that.

The development of the new Chevrolet Camaro on the VE platform will deliver a cheaper, more youthful model for both the local and US market. It will help fund a two-door platform in both left and right hand drive, on a shorter wheelbase.

The US launch of this model will break the current equilibrium among GM’s US divisions and force Pontiac to match Chevrolet’s hot new star.

And that’s where Monaro comes in!

The days where Pontiac could market a Camaro with a different nose cone and tail lights badged as a Firebird (pictured) are gone. Pontiac will need to come up with its own coupe, the specifications for which now appears to be more in line with what Holden needs in a Monaro replacement.

Pontiac has already requested variations of the VE sedan range to supplement its US models and the door is open for both Holden and Pontiac to develop a shared Coupe to complement shared sedan models.

In other words, the synergies between Pontiac and Holden are about to get much closer than when the Aussie team was supplying a Pontiac-badged Monaro.

Now both Holden and Pontiac need a more youthful and sportier model to compete against the Camaro and fresh new Daimler-Chrysler challengers in a younger, lower price market.

The Monaro is now in a remarkably similar position to when the final HJ Monaro GTS version was facing internal competition from a more youthful Torana range including the later SS Hatchback.

This time it seems that Holden, instead of killing off the Monaro as it did then, will respond with a shared Pontiac model that has never been more exciting or alive!
Sounds like they're trying to make a case for a Monaro/Pontiac coupe based on a smaller, cheaper, Ecotec powered platform.

Last edited by Z284ever; Oct 23, 2006 at 09:34 AM.
Old Oct 23, 2006 | 10:53 AM
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Re: Monaro???

Originally Posted by Z284ever
http://www.carpoint.com.au/car-review/2120269.aspx




Sounds like they're trying to make a case for a Monaro/Pontiac coupe based on a smaller, cheaper, Ecotec powered platform.
I saw the Holden/Pontiac shared coupe to go along with the shared sedan, but I didn't come up with that conclusion.
Old Oct 23, 2006 | 11:27 AM
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Re: Monaro???

Originally Posted by jrp4uc
I saw the Holden/Pontiac shared coupe to go along with the shared sedan, but I didn't come up with that conclusion.
Really? What were your conclusions?
Old Oct 23, 2006 | 11:50 AM
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Re: Monaro???

Once again, people don't believe me till they see it in print..... months later

"Pontiac has already requested variations of the VE sedan range to supplement its US models and the door is open for both Holden and Pontiac to develop a shared Coupe to complement shared sedan models.
1st, "Pontiac won't get a RWD sedan", then "There's no GTO".

Oh well.

Last edited by guionM; Oct 23, 2006 at 12:00 PM.
Old Oct 23, 2006 | 11:57 AM
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Re: Monaro???

Originally Posted by Z284ever
Sounds like they're trying to make a case for a Monaro/Pontiac coupe based on a smaller, cheaper, Ecotec powered platform.
Not sure how ya came to that conclusion.

...the door is open for both Holden and Pontiac to develop a shared Coupe to complement shared sedan models.

.....The development of the new Chevrolet Camaro on the VE platform will deliver a cheaper, more youthful model for both the local and US market. It will help fund a two-door platform in both left and right hand drive, on a shorter wheelbase.
I don't think you anyone can be more direct without having it tatooed on their forehead.
Old Oct 23, 2006 | 12:26 PM
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Re: Monaro???

Originally Posted by guionM
Not sure how ya came to that conclusion.
Well, I'll explain. First off, let me say that there is a good bit of speculation in this piece, as there is in most stories like this, (and BTW, throughout the internet), but just going off of what they say...

But don’t expect the ‘new’ Monaro to be a carbon-copy of the old
Interpret that as you wish...




Holden sources say disappointment that the car will never see the light of day is huge in some quarters. Yet insiders are adamant that it will not be dusted off and put into production as the market has already moved on.
Sounds like he's saying that the VE coupe and it's GMX282 sibling are deader than a doorknob, and won't be returning because that's not what the market wants.




A VE Monaro would need to reflect a totally different market and timing they say.
Again, interpret that as you wish, but it sounds like a different formula to me.



However, there was an interim period when VE Monaro had no internal champion especially when Pontiac was not sticking its hand up for a replacement as pre-facelift export GTO models stockpiled in holding yards.
Sounds like Pontiac was/is underwhelmed by by the VZ GTO's sales performance and doesn't want a repeat.



Against a backdrop of GM austerity, Holden had to kill off the VE Monaro and assign valuable resources to more profitable projects.
Once again, he states that the VE Monaro is dead.



The development of the new Chevrolet Camaro on the VE platform will deliver a cheaper, more youthful model for both the local and US market. It will help fund a two-door platform in both left and right hand drive, on a shorter wheelbase.
There was talk early on that the "Monaro replacement" would be a right hand drive Camaro. Where this stands now, I have no idea.



The days where Pontiac could market a Camaro with a different nose cone and tail lights badged as a Firebird (pictured) are gone. Pontiac will need to come up with its own coupe, the specifications for which now appears to be more in line with what Holden needs in a Monaro replacement.
And what might those specifications be???




Now both Holden and Pontiac need a more youthful and sportier model to compete against the Camaro and fresh new Daimler-Chrysler challengers in a younger, lower price market.
"More youthful", "sportier", "younger", "lower priced market".....sounds like smaller, cheaper, less luxurious to me.....and oh wait, just by coincidence, Holden has been very vocal about this 1 Series competitor platform lately.


Take that and tattoo your forehead...

Last edited by Z284ever; Oct 23, 2006 at 12:44 PM.
Old Oct 23, 2006 | 12:27 PM
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Re: Monaro???

Unless the Monaro is newly a part of the epsilon program and I havent heard of it, I would have a hard time thinking anything eccotec under the hood.

Wouldnt this be another full size coupe?
Old Oct 23, 2006 | 01:22 PM
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Re: Monaro???

Originally Posted by graham
Wouldnt this be another full size coupe?
If that could reflect a "totally different market", which is more "youthful" and "lower priced"...... then yes. Otherwise, no.
Old Oct 23, 2006 | 01:39 PM
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Re: Monaro???

Did the Monaro previously have the range of options and availability like f-bodies did?
Old Oct 23, 2006 | 02:34 PM
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Re: Monaro???

Originally Posted by Z284ever
"More youthful", "sportier", "younger", "lower priced market".....sounds like smaller, cheaper, less luxurious to me.....and oh wait, just by coincidence, Holden has been very vocal about this 1 Series competitor platform lately.
Does lowering the price from $35K-45K USD (approx. price Monaro) automatically mean jumping to an ecotec-powered compact (1 series competitor)? Is that a "Monaro replacement" to be shared with Pontiac?

My conclusion was that Pontiac and Holden would share a coupe similar in size to Camaro (but appropriate for a Monaro) with more significant differences than a nosejob and that it would appeal to a broader audience (perhaps more affordably priced?) and thus no longer targeting a niche market.
Old Oct 23, 2006 | 02:45 PM
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Re: Monaro???

Why would they call a smaller coupe monaro though? Monaro was always their midsize coupe akin to GTO/Chevelle. Their small coupe was the Torana
Old Oct 23, 2006 | 02:59 PM
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Re: Monaro???

Originally Posted by Z284ever
.........Take that and tattoo your forehead...
Ok, fair enough.

Now consider some points the article also mentions:

....The Americans were proved correct after US-market revisions kick-started a massive local VZ Monaro sales revival locally that was still running red hot right to the end. Even export sales improved enough to consider a replacement.

....Against a backdrop of GM austerity, Holden had to kill off the VE Monaro and assign valuable resources to more profitable projects.

....The development of the new Chevrolet Camaro on the VE platform will deliver a cheaper, more youthful model for both the local and US market. It will help fund a two-door platform in both left and right hand drive, on a shorter wheelbase.

....The days where Pontiac could market a Camaro with a different nose cone and tail lights badged as a Firebird (pictured) are gone. Pontiac will need to come up with its own coupe, the specifications for which now appears to be more in line with what Holden needs in a Monaro replacement.

....Now both Holden and Pontiac need a more youthful and sportier model to compete against the Camaro and fresh new Daimler-Chrysler challengers in a younger, lower price market.

....This time it seems that Holden, instead of killing off the Monaro as it did then (due to the success of the Torana), will respond with a shared Pontiac model that has never been more exciting or alive!
Here's how I read these:

* Those scoops, tailpipes out of each side in the rear, and the optional GTO grille inserts that some of the "sophisticated" fans called obnoxious American additions actually proved successful in their market as well.

* As Wagoner, Lutz, and Welburn have said, the project was put on hold to divert resources to other GM projects (ie: GMT900) and to rethink the RWD strategy to see where they can save money, combine makes, and most important, make them in the fewest factories possible.

* The Camaro chassis is cheaper than the VE chassis, which we already knew because GM-NA killed the NA-Zeta projects (including the GMX282 model you mentioned) because it was too expensive.

* The volume of the Camaro's sales will fund spinoffs of cars that be used as exports (and that Camaro is engineered to be both side drive).

* Pontiac & Holden will share the same coupe.

* Instead of killing off the car in favor of a smaller version, they are going to make the car sportier.

The way I intrepret all this is:

1. The next Monaro replacement will be more aggresively styled than the last version since the GTO scoops and such proved to be popular in Australia and jump started sales.

2. The next Monaro needs to be cheaper than the last version. Since the NA RWD chassis is cheaper than the VE, then that's what it will be made on.

3. The specifications for a Holden Monaro & GTO coupe call for a car roomier than the Camaro, which also logically means larger, not smaller. Monaro was never a traditionally small car in Australia..... neither was GTO here.
Old Oct 23, 2006 | 03:41 PM
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Re: Monaro???

Originally Posted by jrp4uc
Does lowering the price from $35K-45K USD (approx. price Monaro) automatically mean jumping to an ecotec-powered compact (1 series competitor)? Is that a "Monaro replacement" to be shared with Pontiac?
No, not that alone in a vacuum. But in recent months Holden has been making alot of comments about wanting something smaller and or cheaper than Zeta to build and sell. And it sure sounds to me, like this is what the author of that story is implying.

As far as what's currently going on with a "Monaro replacement", I suppose we can all speculate. There was a time when I felt the Monaro's replacement would actually be a rebadged Camaro...if not the Camaro itself, replete with Camaro badging. It seems Holden is moving away from that now. It also seems that Holden may be moving closer to this new small RWD platform - they certainly have been talking it up the past few months. Pontiac, it appears, is also going into a new direction. A direction that may include a line of sporty, Ecotec powered, RWD sedans/coupes.

Are these the cars that Holden and Pontiac want to share developement of? Sounds plausible to me.
Old Oct 23, 2006 | 03:59 PM
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Re: Monaro???

Originally Posted by guionM
2. The next Monaro needs to be cheaper than the last version. Since the NA RWD chassis is cheaper than the VE, then that's what it will be made on.

It's not that it's necessarily cheaper, it's just cheaper for us to make ours than it is for us to make their's.
Old Oct 23, 2006 | 04:20 PM
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Re: Monaro???

from what i hear, itll have a 110" wheelbase like the camaro. cough* gto cough*



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