INTENSS

What's with this great pedestal that everyone puts imports on over American automobiles?

Today's domestics are churning out some fine pieces of automobiles. I've rented a few cars down here in Florida, a PT Cruiser, Malibu, Impala, Regal, Mustang and Century. All were built very well. Even looked and fit good after tourists abused them (as we know they do).

I don't fall into the great myth that imports are leagues above our domsetic counterparts. The Camry sells so well partly because it sells so well! Alot of people jump on the "best selling car" bandwagon and asume it has to be the best. Camry's are pretty overpriced for their segment IMO.

The Accord is (was) pretty bland itself. I hated that awful Honda interior. People poke remarks at American cars and how boring their interiors are. Well, Hondas are just as plain and have that mroe annoying European angle to them (VW). Which brings up another point, how come people (young) think VW's are so great? Their seats are like rocks, they have BLAND dark interiors and are expensive econo-boxes.

This obviously does not pertain to every VW or the new Accords (which look light years better from the interior pictures I've seen). But c'mon, the Malibu is very tight. Lot's of room. Bargain priced, and is pretty peppy for what it is. (I got to rent the 180hp version - and it beat my friend's cease-fire Vette) lol

I am going to make a point to hit up some more dealerships of the foreign variety to check out their quality...I think people should get into the domestic ones more as well. They might like what they see and feel.

-Rich

Z284ever

Please do. I'd be interested in your impressions.

If you check out VWs, take particular note of their interiors. The quality of the plastic, trim , carpeting and assembly used is far higher than anything from GM. It just gives you a feeling quality when get in. (Long term mechanical reliability is a different story however.....I know, I've owned two VWs).

Bob Lutz must have noticed the same thing....he has mandated that a VW Passat or Audi A4 be present at all GM interior design studios for reference.

RiceEating5.0

Good point INTENSS. I think it all comes down to reputation. Toyota and honda have had a good reputation of building quality cars for the last couple of decades. Sadly, the same can't be said for the big 3.

As studies have shown, domestics have lessened the gap and are getting closer (in initial quality). I just think Ford and GM (excluding brands like linclon and cadillac which already make quality cars) need to work on improving their reputation in the buyers eyes and that's going to take a long time.

Plus, long term durability tests done by J.D. power and associates hasn't exactly favored Pontiac or Chevy. I'm sure that'll change with the newer cars but it'll also take time.

The Japanese for the most part have proven themselves, and it's now Americas turn to step up to the plate. A couple of good years or models don't over night make up for decades of slacking and not so good quality.

My 2 cents on this matter of perception.

formula79

Last time I was in a Camry the interior was made of the same plastic I see in a Malibu

PacerX

"Last time I was in a Camry the interior was made of the same plastic I see in a Malibu."

Yeah, with far poorer design elements. They are beyond boring and approching catatonic.

Oh and BTW, Honda and Toyota body fits are ATROCIOUS. A step above Ford, but well behind GM and Chrysler.

VW's quality history is as bad as the Japanese body fits, and not just mechanical issues either...

Eric77TA

Lutz in recent articles about the 2004 Malibu at thecarconnection.com and auto.com stated that studies show GMs "actual" quality is twice what the public perceives it to be while the "perceived" quality of the imports is actually 3 times worse than people think. People believe what they want to believe. I will agree with you, however, that the look and feel of VWs materials is very nice.

formula79

I know what you mean i have posted studies 1000X that show GM is one of the top automakers in terms of quality...but all I hear is that those reports are BS...seems you just can't convince anyone.

You should see the look on someones face when you tell them that the Malibu ranks higher in initial quality then Accord and Camry in JD Power's 2001 study. First they flat out call you a lier..then they explain it way with lame excuses about initial quality only being the first 90 and blah..blah...blah..

The way I look at it is if a car can go 90 days after being sold with no screw ups..then it is much more likely to last long than one that had 10 problems it's first 90 days.

I remember once I was talking to a GM exec and he told me the funniest story about a dealer that sold both Hondas and Chevys. He told me about how the shop manager pointed out that people will bring a Suburban in because of something like a window motor is broke and the coustomer will **** and whine over paying $40 for the repair. Yet on the Honda side they will have 5 Accord in there all getting transmissions replaced, and every last owner will come in there and happily hand them $2,000 repair it with no questions...all because Honda's are built well and thiers must be a fluke

DOOM Master

Gotta agree with formula79 on this one, especially about how people who get Hondas and stuff think their cars just have some "accidental" leak or something. When I used to work at Speed Lube, I swear that every Honda or VW that pulled into the place had some type of fluid leak. Oil, tranny, you name it, they had a leak. But when you tell the driver, they were always like "Oh, it's okay, it's always done that and I've never had any problems." Sure, a lot of these were because people didn't take care of their cars (letting the oil go 10k before getting it changed) and I saw plenty of domestics with leaks as well, but you'd think by now the myth that imports are of superior quality would have been thrown out by now. And if you want to really check out quality of cars, dig up the records for warranty repairs for all vehicles. I find it amazing that imports have the same number of warranty repairs that domestics do. Yet their build quality is better?

redzed

Actually, every car in the VW range has great seats! I personally love the manual height and lumbar adjustments in the cheaper models. In contrast, my old Detroit iron, with its lame marshmallow seats, can redefine the term "lower-back pain." Amazingly, they decided to put all of the padding behind your shoulderblades - and leave a hollow where the lumbar support should be. My Camaro isn't that bad, but the driver's seat in a Jetta is more supportive where it counts.

Z284ever

I agree about VW seats. I used to have a Corrado with Recaro designed seats as standard equipment. They were the best car seats I've ever had.

I remember every spring...when I'd take my Camaro out of hibernation....the Camaro's seats felt like lawn chairs (and cheap ones at that) compared to the Recaros in my Corrado.

guionM

I know more than a few people whose engines disintergrated by broken timing belts on used Hondas. On Guam & Hawaii, Honda's (and the other Japanese makes) don't hold up as well over the years as American cars. I can see choosing a Honda off the showroom over a Malibu because they actually are screwed together better, and hold up better for the first 5 years or so. But as far as long term durability, I'd choose American cars hands down.

I think that if I have to change a timing belt & water pump every 60-70,000 miles, or have service intervals twice as often as the other guys, that's not exactly the criteria I'd use in buying a used car.

formula79

My experiance has been that American cars last longer overtime and when they do break they are much cheaper and easier to repair.

I have an 87 T-bird V6 with 230,000 miles on it that this the best $300 I ever spent.

muckz

I certainly would take water pump change every 60 - 70 K miles . I went through 3 water pumps on my Camaro in only 50K miles.

Reliability after 5 years... I am not talking body rust, Japanese cars do rust very quickly. But I'm talking about engine longetivity, and longetivity of their manual transmissions, as well as general mechanics on which you depend (heater cores, window motors, a/c systems, etc..).

The reason Honda is in such high regard is because of its reliability over the last 2 or so decades. This means that here, in North America, these cars last for years, much more than just 5 years.

I had some good experiences with American cars, but only the older ones. The newer ones I had the pleasure of owning were a little less than reliable. Whether it's an indication of overall quality of domestics or just some bad apples, I do not know. However, I have decided that I will try a Japanese car next, to see if it can live up to its reputation.

Much of this is personal views, but such views are usually based from experience. If I get 3 domestics and 3 of them prove not so reliable, and then I get 3 japanese and 2 of them prove reliable - you bet I'll be advocating Japanese cars, no matter what "research" shows.

I've taken enough statistics in university to realize that all facts about cars, such as various quality, reliability and longetivity studies should be taken with a grain of salt, if not all the time, then at least most of the time. Many studies face on different aspects so that different vehicles come off as winners in studies conducted by different companies.

I judge by my personal experience. I also judge by experience of my family and my friends. Perhaps car's dependability is affected by the area where one lives - I'm sure vehicles in California or Florida will behave quite different to the ones in Alberta or Alaska.

And when it comes to interior selection, personal taste does apply. But one cannot fail to notice how tight and well put together Japanese interiors are, particularly Honda's. I don't like Camry, and never cared for Toyota, but Honda did get my attention. Don't criticize shape of buttons, don't criticize shape of dashboard - only look at how well the pieces are fit together.

And then comes the world of fuel economy, but this is a different topic altogether.

Now, don't think I'm dissing domestics - I am not. There are many advantages to domestic cars - for example, not having to replace timing belt. Not having to worry about someone ripping off your H emblems. Or, not having to worry that your current set of spark plugs was scheduled for replacement 2 years ago. Most import cars are sensitive to worn spark plugs, as I have witnessed, but to my amazement not so with domestic cars, particularly GM (the domestic manufacturer I had experience with).

Anyway, the list can go on, but overall I give Honda the edge on reliability. I do hope that new Malibus are as reliable as rumors/studies/opinions make them to be - this will only be to the advantage of consumers. But for this we will have to wait another 5 - 10 years to see where domestic quality is.

Man, this is long, but hopefully this explains my viewpoint better than my initial two sentences.

formula79

Most Camaro's live harder lives that other cars..I think complaining about thier reliability is kinda hard. Not evey hatchbackl has 350 HP for $25,000

redzed

Maybe its just me, but a timing belt is a MANDATORY service item. If a car has one, the owner should treat its replacement interval pretty seriously. Other than that, a Honda's "mandatory" service intervals are pretty conservative. If anything, they seem to be more written around dealer service department profitability than neccessity.