Refresh me please

 

So there were basically two Zetas...one Sigma based, and one V Based. Chevy planned all along to use the Sigma based Zeta, while Pontiac and Buick tied their fortunes to the VE based Zeta which got axed for costing too much. GM has been studying some form of a Sigma based Camaro as far back as the late 90's....yet the car is 3 years aways still? Talk about inefficiancy! Mustang will probaly be getting some sort of freshening by then. Hell...by then we could all be looking for hybrids because of the price of gas.

I also don't get how GM can get so far in the game with the VE based Zeta and cancel it right before you order tooling. I would imagine ton of money was blown on development...but wait...that was Holden's money...not GM NA...so that's how they did it. GM NA did not have to spend any serious bucks until it came time to retool the factories for Holden's production processes. At that point I am guessing they realized the VE based Zeta cost too much. This is how we end up at Sigma based Zeta which has a more familiar production system.

Sorry for the rant....this stuff is just insane though. By the time we see our "Sigma-Lite" Camaro...it will have been on the drawing board for almost a decade!

 

I had started a rant earlier, but this about covers it. Personally, my favorite part is where they mess up the last functioning part of the company.

 

Hmm... Starting to sound dangerously similar to another doom and gloom thread, where I was reminded of Eeyore and his melancholy voice...

Gads you poor souls need to snap out of this. I did. Holden and GM can't collaborate? How'd I end up with my stunning 05 GTO then. I've got one of the best muscle cars ever put out by GM. I'll be ready, eventually, when they come out with a better one. In the meantime I'm not wasting time crying in the beer. Good grief, stop wringing your hands like a bunch of old maids

 

You're right. Mother GM is very strong. Comrades Lutz and Wagoner planned zeta project with Australian comrades perfectly. RWD program continues with much smootheness and stays on original schedule. Those who say this was not original plan do not understand struggle, and are just whining eyores.

 

There's a bit of a difference between collaboration and the method via which your 05 GTO came about.

Collaboration isn't finding an already-built car you like, tweaking the engine, bonnet and 'zorst. That's just shopping.

Collaboration is working together for a joint purpose for mutual benefit. Haven't seen too much evidence of that yet...

 

To expand on Brandon's idea,

Most of the work that went on for GMNAs Holden based Zeta was just math work done on computers. I don't really think that costs a lot.

I think what it came down to was the build process. GMNA's Zeta and Holden's Zeta probably use the same rear end and GMNAs uses struts and Holden's uses SLA but it is an older more paid for unibody.

I know the Sigma camaro has been worked on for a LONG time but sometimes that is a good thing. Look at the C5 and how far it was ahead of the C4. Hopefully we will see that much inprovement in the F5

 

I do believe Holden DID benefit from the GTO program. It helped bolster thruput on their production line, also resulted in shared improvements for the newest Monaro coupe (CV8Z) such as the new hood and such. Given the relatively short involvement so far on the GTO, I'd say the results are fairly impressive. I read that over 300 changes were made to the Monaro coupe to make it meet US standards. Not exactly "shopping" "off the shelf" in my book. And the new Goat was just an example... of what is ALREADY out there. Face the facts people... no one posting here both knows, and can post openly about, what's happening next with Holden and GM. I'm only going by the yardstick of recent history. My GTO is simply magnificent... but credit for it (and credit for it being SALEABLE in the US) belongs with BOTH GM and Holden not either one alone. I'm merely extrapolating that to the future and saying that from that known quantity, it's reasonable to expect better things to come instead of the sad-sack predictions I often see on this "enthusiast" ( ) site.

 

No doubt, that mistakes have been made. If GM were perfect, there would have never been a Camaro 'hiatus'. If Ford were perfect, there would never have been the exploding Pinto. If DaimlerCX were perfect, they would never have wasted $$ on making the Plymouth Prowler. If you and I were perfect... etc. But how do you (or anyone here for that matter) know, really, what's the best path for GM/Holden partnering? We don't have all the facts, do we? They have a lot more info on this decision than we do - and judging from history the results, when they happen, will be breathtaking. And wouldn't it surprise some here... if it turned out to be more efficient/effective to design and build the next RWD V8 Pontiac here in NA. It could happen, or maybe it will be more like the GTO/Monaro program, who knows. But it looks pretty silly to me seeing folks moaning and bellyaching about the unknown.

 

Good post dark. Sometimes people forget GM is not gonna hand us over the books and let us see exactly what is going on. Sometimes you hit, sometimes you miss; that's the Auto Industry. And thank god I'm not in it, LOL.

 

Just so everyone knows, Holden has made substantial money on the GTO. The business case for the Monaro was built on 10,000 units spread over 3 years.

The 25,000 '04/ '05 GTO's and whatever the '06 production run will be is a windfall for Holden.

Holden's willingness to continue VZ coupe production for as along as Pontiac can make a case for them, is not because Holden has some collegial relationship with Pontiac. It's purely a sound business decision.

 

Or until the new saftey regs say otherwise.

 

F5... I like the sound of that.



I dont care if the next GTO and camaro share a platform, as long as they are good looking, good value, no bigger/heavier and have good quality.

You know that they could drop the firebird/trans am/GTO names and just call it the Pontiac F5.

 

The only safety reg on the horizon is the one regarding passenger airbags. A simple matter on a car selling in large quanities, or having a number of years to adsorb the costs, or having a large pricetag. Not a simple matter on a relatively low cost coupe that sells in relatively low numbers that will only be around a couple of additional years before being replaced.

VZ coupe already passes crash standards, including that new rearender (why the fuel tank was relocated).

 

Yeah, unfortunately.