Look at what Nissan is bringing to market. Has GM completely lost touch?
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 1,308
From: Calgary
some misc comments--
but I doubt the Nissan will be 300hp...much more.
When is GEN IV coming for piick ups? I'll eat my hat if it's less then 2 years. The C6 will get first then at least a year before pickups do.
Oh and the only way you can get a 345hp 6.0 in a Chevy half-ton is the Silverado SS
but I doubt the Nissan will be 300hp...much more.
When is GEN IV coming for piick ups? I'll eat my hat if it's less then 2 years. The C6 will get first then at least a year before pickups do.
Oh and the only way you can get a 345hp 6.0 in a Chevy half-ton is the Silverado SS
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 599
From: Inland Empire, CA
Originally posted by Z28x
you can get a 345HP Hemi in the 1500 Dodge Ram NOW. THe Titan doesn't come out until about Dec.03/Jan.04. Don't sell Chevy short just yet. New Gen IV V8's will be out soon.
also the GTP you were looking, don't forget, only chumps pay MSRP, you should beable to get at least $2K of MSRP. And with the $3,000 rebate that brings the price down to $22K.
Also in less than a year GM will put out:
260HP S/C Monte Carlo
260HP S/C Impala SS
285HP V8 Pontiac GXP
200HP+ turbo Saturn Ion
Ford also has a 300HP 5.4L 3V V8 coming out in June for the F-150, so by the time the new Nissan truck is out 300HP won't be anything special
you can get a 345HP Hemi in the 1500 Dodge Ram NOW. THe Titan doesn't come out until about Dec.03/Jan.04. Don't sell Chevy short just yet. New Gen IV V8's will be out soon.
also the GTP you were looking, don't forget, only chumps pay MSRP, you should beable to get at least $2K of MSRP. And with the $3,000 rebate that brings the price down to $22K.
Also in less than a year GM will put out:
260HP S/C Monte Carlo
260HP S/C Impala SS
285HP V8 Pontiac GXP
200HP+ turbo Saturn Ion
Ford also has a 300HP 5.4L 3V V8 coming out in June for the F-150, so by the time the new Nissan truck is out 300HP won't be anything special
The problem with all of those cars you listed...FWD, automatic...blech.
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Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 10,285
From: Albany, NY
Originally posted by MunchE
Yeah, at least Dodge and Ford are holding the torch for fun American cars.
The problem with all of those cars you listed...FWD, automatic...blech.
Yeah, at least Dodge and Ford are holding the torch for fun American cars.
The problem with all of those cars you listed...FWD, automatic...blech.
I thought the GM pickups were getting DOD V8's for '04 aren't all DOD V8's Gen IV? Plus the Silverado SS should be getting a HP boost for '04 making more room for the regular silverado to put out more HP
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Joined: May 1998
Posts: 317
From: Maumee, OH
I agree with pretty much everything redzed said. I mentioned a while back that GM's 2003 lineup is pretty weak and that Nissan and/or Infinity have an answer for nearly any GM car. (like someone else said Trucks/SUVS = who cares). For the most part, Nissan's offerings of similar style/sized cars are less expensive and offer more overall bang for the buck. This does not look like it will change in the near future.
Let me explain something, my father works for GM and I've never bought anything but GM, mainly because of the discount. However, it's come to the point that the discounts are no longer what they once were and I see no reason to give GM (or any other company) my undying loyalty for no other reason than loyalty itself. If I were to buy a new car today, it would not be a GM car. There is simply nothing GM offers that somone else doesn't offer for cheaper and with more options. That's the naked truth. Argue all you want with that, but a quick trip to Carpoint or another site that lets you compare cars, will prove me right.
GM's last bang for the buck car is now history (the F-body in case you were sleeping). There's nothing left and by all accounts there won't be anything until later this decade. (that almost makes me laugh out loud -- almost).
One last thing, the impression I get from GM, and this is what concerns me the most, is they aren't doing anything about it! Look at the Mustang, with it's crappy-*** styling, selling circles around the F-body twins. And now Ford has hit the jackpot with the '05 concept. If that thing would ever come with something around 300HP, I would switch to Ford in a heartbeat. This, coming from someone who up until now would've bought a LeCar before buying any Ford.
The only people with their heads in the sand are the ones blindly waiting for GM to deliver some great as yet to be released car and criticizing anyone else that brings up legitimate flaws in GM's lineup. The "well, just wait until xyz comes out" crap is old. Put it to rest.
Let me explain something, my father works for GM and I've never bought anything but GM, mainly because of the discount. However, it's come to the point that the discounts are no longer what they once were and I see no reason to give GM (or any other company) my undying loyalty for no other reason than loyalty itself. If I were to buy a new car today, it would not be a GM car. There is simply nothing GM offers that somone else doesn't offer for cheaper and with more options. That's the naked truth. Argue all you want with that, but a quick trip to Carpoint or another site that lets you compare cars, will prove me right.
GM's last bang for the buck car is now history (the F-body in case you were sleeping). There's nothing left and by all accounts there won't be anything until later this decade. (that almost makes me laugh out loud -- almost).
One last thing, the impression I get from GM, and this is what concerns me the most, is they aren't doing anything about it! Look at the Mustang, with it's crappy-*** styling, selling circles around the F-body twins. And now Ford has hit the jackpot with the '05 concept. If that thing would ever come with something around 300HP, I would switch to Ford in a heartbeat. This, coming from someone who up until now would've bought a LeCar before buying any Ford.
The only people with their heads in the sand are the ones blindly waiting for GM to deliver some great as yet to be released car and criticizing anyone else that brings up legitimate flaws in GM's lineup. The "well, just wait until xyz comes out" crap is old. Put it to rest.
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Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 6,165
From: Sterling Heights, MI
Originally posted by RoMaD
(like someone else said Trucks/SUVS = who cares).
(like someone else said Trucks/SUVS = who cares).
That said, GM has now turned its attention to cars, cars that in the upcoming years I think we can be proud of.
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 3,597
From: oshawa,ontario,canada
Originally posted by RoMaD
I agree with pretty much everything redzed said. I mentioned a while back that GM's 2003 lineup is pretty weak and that Nissan and/or Infinity have an answer for nearly any GM car. (like someone else said Trucks/SUVS = who cares). For the most part, Nissan's offerings of similar style/sized cars are less expensive and offer more overall bang for the buck. This does not look like it will change in the near future.
Let me explain something, my father works for GM and I've never bought anything but GM, mainly because of the discount. However, it's come to the point that the discounts are no longer what they once were and I see no reason to give GM (or any other company) my undying loyalty for no other reason than loyalty itself. If I were to buy a new car today, it would not be a GM car. There is simply nothing GM offers that somone else doesn't offer for cheaper and with more options. That's the naked truth. Argue all you want with that, but a quick trip to Carpoint or another site that lets you compare cars, will prove me right.
GM's last bang for the buck car is now history (the F-body in case you were sleeping). There's nothing left and by all accounts there won't be anything until later this decade. (that almost makes me laugh out loud -- almost).
One last thing, the impression I get from GM, and this is what concerns me the most, is they aren't doing anything about it! Look at the Mustang, with it's crappy-*** styling, selling circles around the F-body twins. And now Ford has hit the jackpot with the '05 concept. If that thing would ever come with something around 300HP, I would switch to Ford in a heartbeat. This, coming from someone who up until now would've bought a LeCar before buying any Ford.
The only people with their heads in the sand are the ones blindly waiting for GM to deliver some great as yet to be released car and criticizing anyone else that brings up legitimate flaws in GM's lineup. The "well, just wait until xyz comes out" crap is old. Put it to rest.
I agree with pretty much everything redzed said. I mentioned a while back that GM's 2003 lineup is pretty weak and that Nissan and/or Infinity have an answer for nearly any GM car. (like someone else said Trucks/SUVS = who cares). For the most part, Nissan's offerings of similar style/sized cars are less expensive and offer more overall bang for the buck. This does not look like it will change in the near future.
Let me explain something, my father works for GM and I've never bought anything but GM, mainly because of the discount. However, it's come to the point that the discounts are no longer what they once were and I see no reason to give GM (or any other company) my undying loyalty for no other reason than loyalty itself. If I were to buy a new car today, it would not be a GM car. There is simply nothing GM offers that somone else doesn't offer for cheaper and with more options. That's the naked truth. Argue all you want with that, but a quick trip to Carpoint or another site that lets you compare cars, will prove me right.
GM's last bang for the buck car is now history (the F-body in case you were sleeping). There's nothing left and by all accounts there won't be anything until later this decade. (that almost makes me laugh out loud -- almost).
One last thing, the impression I get from GM, and this is what concerns me the most, is they aren't doing anything about it! Look at the Mustang, with it's crappy-*** styling, selling circles around the F-body twins. And now Ford has hit the jackpot with the '05 concept. If that thing would ever come with something around 300HP, I would switch to Ford in a heartbeat. This, coming from someone who up until now would've bought a LeCar before buying any Ford.
The only people with their heads in the sand are the ones blindly waiting for GM to deliver some great as yet to be released car and criticizing anyone else that brings up legitimate flaws in GM's lineup. The "well, just wait until xyz comes out" crap is old. Put it to rest.
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Joined: May 1998
Posts: 317
From: Maumee, OH
Originally posted by Z28Wilson
Apparently a few million people care every year. All I can say is that GM is a business and the last statistic that I saw was that light trucks now have a bigger market share than passenger cars. Hmm I wonder why GM invested big bucks in its truck line....
That said, GM has now turned its attention to cars, cars that in the upcoming years I think we can be proud of.
Apparently a few million people care every year. All I can say is that GM is a business and the last statistic that I saw was that light trucks now have a bigger market share than passenger cars. Hmm I wonder why GM invested big bucks in its truck line....
That said, GM has now turned its attention to cars, cars that in the upcoming years I think we can be proud of.
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 599
From: Inland Empire, CA
GM is realizing all too late that they can't just depend on truck sales anymore.
They decided to stop trying to compete with imports in cars, and just make trucks/SUVs. Now everyone makes trucks and SUVs.
I haven't seen any figures on it, but has GM's market share been GROWING in that segment? Or in ANY segment?
And personally, if I was going to buy a truck, the only one I'm excited about is the Lightning. That's the kind of truck that gets someone to go look, and maybe go home with a regular F-Series, even if they weren't thinking of buying a truck.
GM has...hey look, we make trucks and a bunch of ****ty cars. I'm not likely to go in to check out the Corvette and leave with a 1500.
They decided to stop trying to compete with imports in cars, and just make trucks/SUVs. Now everyone makes trucks and SUVs.
I haven't seen any figures on it, but has GM's market share been GROWING in that segment? Or in ANY segment?
And personally, if I was going to buy a truck, the only one I'm excited about is the Lightning. That's the kind of truck that gets someone to go look, and maybe go home with a regular F-Series, even if they weren't thinking of buying a truck.
GM has...hey look, we make trucks and a bunch of ****ty cars. I'm not likely to go in to check out the Corvette and leave with a 1500.
Last edited by MunchE; Jan 24, 2003 at 03:04 PM.
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Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 10,285
From: Albany, NY
GMC sales were up about 10% for 2002. and something like 68% of Chevys sold are trucks/SUVs.
I see most of you are not truck people on this board.
I was a truck person before I got my Z28, now I'm hooked on speed, otherwise if I wasn't going to get a fast car I would get a truck
I see most of you are not truck people on this board.
I was a truck person before I got my Z28, now I'm hooked on speed, otherwise if I wasn't going to get a fast car I would get a truck
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,139
From: Commerce, mi, USA
GM's last bang for the buck car is now history (the F-body in case you were sleeping). There's nothing left and by all accounts there won't be anything until later this decade. (that almost makes me laugh out loud -- almost).
...(gratuitous Ford-adoration deleted to save space)...
The only people with their heads in the sand are the ones blindly waiting for GM to deliver some great as yet to be released car and criticizing anyone else that brings up legitimate flaws in GM's lineup. The "well, just wait until xyz comes out" crap is old. Put it to rest.
...(gratuitous Ford-adoration deleted to save space)...
The only people with their heads in the sand are the ones blindly waiting for GM to deliver some great as yet to be released car and criticizing anyone else that brings up legitimate flaws in GM's lineup. The "well, just wait until xyz comes out" crap is old. Put it to rest.
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 1,308
From: Calgary
Maybe he means bang for the buck....all those cars you listed are great but hardly affordable. A few are automatic only--which is fine if you want it.
With the exception of the Saturn ION coupe--which isn't avaible yet and when will it come with a turbo?? Next year---year after??
I remeber turbo Qaud 4 concepts for years--never happened.
GM is so out of touch--alost every car manufactiuer has a small fwd 2-4 door but not GM...yet anyways.
Of course most of us would rather have a V8 RWD coupe--but given the chioce between nothing and a
samll, fast FWD 2-4 door, I'll take the latter
With the exception of the Saturn ION coupe--which isn't avaible yet and when will it come with a turbo?? Next year---year after??
I remeber turbo Qaud 4 concepts for years--never happened.
GM is so out of touch--alost every car manufactiuer has a small fwd 2-4 door but not GM...yet anyways.
Of course most of us would rather have a V8 RWD coupe--but given the chioce between nothing and a
samll, fast FWD 2-4 door, I'll take the latter
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 1,308
From: Calgary
Maybe you guys are rich or maybe it's just becasue
Canadas standard of lving is 20% lower but
a GTP goes for about 31+K (CDN--off the top of my head) GAGT start at 27-28K and the CTS is a little over 40K.
My gf has a GAGT so I am well aqauinted with it's performance. It's excellent for 175hp--I have no doubt I could beat a 200hp Accord, Stratus, or Tarus. (note to To GM--give it a solid 215hp next gen and don't raise the price!)
But it's far from blowing you away. Many people confuse it with a GTP--the car is not as fast as it looks.
I don't want to even think what a Boneville GPX will cost.
GM does have some really good stuff coming like you said--but affordable?? Hardly.
Dodge has Neon SRT, Nissan SER, Focus SVT (still kinda cool) Cavalier Z24 is a joke compared to these.
Lets say your in College (like me) you graduate and decided to buy a new car.....---unless mommy and daddy paid for your education or and/or you landed a high paying job you wouldn't even look at those car.
I hope GM has something interesting AND affordable when I graduate.
Jurys still out on ION turbo---but I dunno about Saturn--there interiors are boring AND ugly--and centre mounted speedo? wtf?
Canadas standard of lving is 20% lower but
a GTP goes for about 31+K (CDN--off the top of my head) GAGT start at 27-28K and the CTS is a little over 40K.
My gf has a GAGT so I am well aqauinted with it's performance. It's excellent for 175hp--I have no doubt I could beat a 200hp Accord, Stratus, or Tarus. (note to To GM--give it a solid 215hp next gen and don't raise the price!)
But it's far from blowing you away. Many people confuse it with a GTP--the car is not as fast as it looks.
I don't want to even think what a Boneville GPX will cost.
GM does have some really good stuff coming like you said--but affordable?? Hardly.
Dodge has Neon SRT, Nissan SER, Focus SVT (still kinda cool) Cavalier Z24 is a joke compared to these.
Lets say your in College (like me) you graduate and decided to buy a new car.....---unless mommy and daddy paid for your education or and/or you landed a high paying job you wouldn't even look at those car.
I hope GM has something interesting AND affordable when I graduate.
Jurys still out on ION turbo---but I dunno about Saturn--there interiors are boring AND ugly--and centre mounted speedo? wtf?
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,808
From: FL/MI
Originally posted by MunchE
GM is realizing all too late that they can't just depend on truck sales anymore.
They decided to stop trying to compete with imports in cars, and just make trucks/SUVs. Now everyone makes trucks and SUVs.
I haven't seen any figures on it, but has GM's market share been GROWING in that segment? Or in ANY segment?
And personally, if I was going to buy a truck, the only one I'm excited about is the Lightning. That's the kind of truck that gets someone to go look, and maybe go home with a regular F-Series, even if they weren't thinking of buying a truck.
GM has...hey look, we make trucks and a bunch of ****ty cars. I'm not likely to go in to check out the Corvette and leave with a 1500.
GM is realizing all too late that they can't just depend on truck sales anymore.
They decided to stop trying to compete with imports in cars, and just make trucks/SUVs. Now everyone makes trucks and SUVs.
I haven't seen any figures on it, but has GM's market share been GROWING in that segment? Or in ANY segment?
And personally, if I was going to buy a truck, the only one I'm excited about is the Lightning. That's the kind of truck that gets someone to go look, and maybe go home with a regular F-Series, even if they weren't thinking of buying a truck.
GM has...hey look, we make trucks and a bunch of ****ty cars. I'm not likely to go in to check out the Corvette and leave with a 1500.
"GM's big year-end dealer incentives atop massive consumer rebates and free loans vaulted the company into its second consecutive year of increased U.S. market share in 2002 - and helped nearly triple GM's annual profits, to $1.7 billion."
Other major car makers are squealing like stuck pigs because they are spending future developement bucks in an effort to not lose more marketshare to GM. GM has a ton of new product in the pipeline and it's only now rolling out bit by bit.
I certainly don't suggest that GM is perfect and making everyone happy as quickly as they would like.
Much of the tone on this section is very anti GM and pounding on about the ineptness of GM... increased market share and nearly triple the profit.... the inept descriptions don't quite fit, IMO.
It's all a matter of opinion in the end. I happen to think GM has a lot of good things happening now and MANY good things coming that will interest many buyers in the future, including performance folks.
I hope you are one of them. If not, you will be missed.
Last edited by 1fastdog; Jan 25, 2003 at 08:46 PM.
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Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 2,610
From: Cincinnati, OH
I love the ION, lots of people dont like the way it looks though. I can imagine that breaking into the sport-compact world. It runs the turbo eco-tech right? Just about the most proven 4 cyl in drag racing, they gotta do something fast with it.