No one should kid themselves...EVERYONE IS TEMPORARY CONTRACT HELP...your only value to any company, GM included, is if they need what you do and you do it better than most people...anyone who thinks otherwise is a pink slip looking for a place to happen.

The transplants aren't here as a charade...that tired mantra is as untrue as someone claiming that GM only makes crappy cars with bad gasoline mileage.

Although certainly important, labor cost is far from the only significant financial component in building a vehicle; the transplants are here because it makes good financial sense, on the whole, for them to be here (and spurred on by idiotic protectionists measures enacted by Congress at the behest of Detroit and the UAW in an effort to "protect" themselves rather than requiring Detroit to actually compete).

The transplants are most certainly not here because the Detroit Three "puts them to shame about importing" except in the minds of those who think one's patriotism can be measured only by the nameplate on the vehicle they choose to drive. Tell me what's more "shameful"; buying a Chrysler PT Cruiser Convertible made outside of the U.S. and with a North American parts content of 34% or buying a Toyota Carola made here and with an NA parts content of 75%???

It makes good financial sense to build the vehicles in the U.S. that are sold in the U.S. and as for the "shame" of importing vehicles, the American public have been saying with their dollars for decades that they'll buy what they want and what fits their needs and desires whether it's made in Michigan or Mississippi or Japan or Korea or Germany.

 

The Carola.

 

Buying the yota.

The "American" public and I use that term loosely these days, have lost there sense of self and grown ignorant of the pride they should have for their homeland.

 

I will never understand the reasoning (if there is reasoning...it's probably just emotion) behind thinking that (even putting the parts content aside) buying a vehicle made in Mexico or some equally foreign country is somehow better for the economy than buying a vehicle made in the U.S. by Americans.

 

I don't hold any disdain for American automakers. What I have a disdain for is government - corporate welfare/bailouts, what they represent, and the precedent set by them.

 

American made content is important in a US sold vehicle. As is where it was built. As is where it was engineered. Lastly, where is the corporate headquarters and where are the shareholders (that get dividends) located?

Personally, I'd rather they *all* be in the US. Many import brands do a bit of design/engineering here in the US, use US content, and build them in the US. Sure their shareholders and corporate headquarters is elsewhere, but is that honestly better or worse than an american company engineering a car here but using more non-us content and building it in mexico?

I think that is too complicated an answer to really be decided here one way or another, aside from the fact that we can all agree more done in the US is better for our economy.

But at the moment I think jobs are better, cause even Toyota isnt raking in profits.

 

That's rather optomistic.

 

You oversimplify things. American made doesn't mean the same as using American built parts. You'd know that ... you work for Nissan and you know some of the parts are imported. You'd probably know what % is local content.

Anyway, Mexico and Canada are part of the 'North American' business model. It's interesting that you choose to single out Mexico and not Canada. I gather, to slant your argument.

 

I wasn't trying to oversimplify; just trying to not get overly deep.

It's quite true that "American made doesn't mean the same as using American built parts but that argument is carrying less and less weight these days.

On the whole, GM/Ford/Chrysler vehicles do contain more NA sourced parts than international nameplates. However, on a model by model basis, the "gap" is not always in the domestic's favor and is often virtually non-existent. Moreover, the trend has seen the overall gap steadily narrowing....for many yeas that gap was narrowing because the foreign nameplates were using more and more NA sourced parts; the more disturbing side of that trend, however, is that the NA parts content for all manufacturers, both domestic and foreign has been decreasing or late (albeit the domestics seem to be decreasing at a faster rate than foreign brands).

In any case, the NA parts content doesn't have to be a matter of recollection or assumption; the NHTSA lists the NA parts content of all vehicles sold in the U.S. on their website.


Actually, when it comes to discussions about what's more "American"; l have often pointed out the irony of calling the Fourth/Fifth Generation Fbody cars "American" since they are made in a foreign country...I don't do it to be "mean"; simply to make a point. I didn't mention it here because such facts are not usually well-received and I'm tired of being beaten up over it...there are a lot of people who, when it comes to the domestic auto industry, want to believe it's sill 1950 or 1960 when definitions of "foreign" and "domestic" were defined with a razor's edge.

That "razor's edge" has turned into a broad, vast plain where "old" definitions of what's "foreign" and what's "domestic" work only in the minds of those who refuse to see the automotive landscape in 21st century terms.

We truly are in a global economy and I doubt there is an industry segment where that is more true than the automotive segment...we have "foreign" nameplate vehicles built in the U.S. by American workers with more American sourced parts in them than some "domestic" nameplate vehicles made in the U.S....some of those "foreign" nameplate vehicles made in the U.S. are "exported" to other countries/regions of the world...then we have "domestic" nameplate vehicles designed in a foreign country and assembled in a foreign country using mostly foreign sourced parts but "imported" into the U.S.! You need a scorecard to keep up and a computer to keep up with the scorecard...maybe that's why people just rely on the nameplate; because really "knowing" anymore is just too difficult!

To bring this all back to the discussion of the Federal government stepping it to try and rescue Detroit; since this is truly a global economy, it's in every manufacturer's best interest that the U.S. have a vibrant and diverse automotive industry and an open marketplace...it doesn't help anybody if GM or Ford or Chrysler were to suddenly close it's doors...it would also be quite devastating if, say, Toyota or Honda suddenly left North America (no matter how happy that might make some people).

However, it also, in my opinion, isn't healthy or good for anybody if the Federal government's involvement simply means continuing the status quo at the domestics in a hope (and likely a false hope) the the total vehicle market and there share of it is going to be able to sustain them long-term without concurrently doing a massive restructuring.

 

I agree.

You asked a question (BTW, what is a Carola?); I answered. Geoff Chadwick gave a thoughtful answer -- far more thoughtful than the question. If you want explanation of my answer, see his reply just above (or on the previous page, depending on where this ends up).

 

Anasazi hit the nail on the head. I would like to see Scott chime in on this post. I think Anasazi has a good point. It would be fair to address his point, especially after calling him out like that on this very subject.

 

Again these guys don't necessarily want to publicize their buisness plans given the competitive nature of the industry.

 

Is it more or less patriotic or American, if an Mexican immigrant buys an American car manufactured in Mexico in the US? Oh wait, what?

 

You lose that privilege when you come begging for money.

 

We're long past the point where thy have the right to keep their "business plan" to themselves...they are begging for taxpayer money; aside from true trade secrets; it's time to lay all their cards on the table.