redzed

Lexus is a successful luxury brand, Buick is a fading mass-market brand with very substantial fleet sales. I mean seriously, Buick sales peaked in the 1984 model year.

In the decade and a half since its launch, the Lexus brand has established itself as the equal to Mercedes and BMW in prestige. A Lexus is a symbol of success much like Rolex watch. A Buick is more of a Timex.

Anyone would be proud to own a Rolex, but while there's no shame in owning a Timex, there's no reason to be proud either.

Darth Xed

I agree with the general premise of what you are saying... however, that doesn't mean that the typical Buick buyer is on a "fixed income"..

I'd also argue your statement of Lexus being the equal of BMW and/or Mercedes as far as the prestige factor goes.

redzed

I think you're having a hard time accepting that Buick is no more of a "prestige" brand than any of the Korean makes.

If you were talking about European markets where Lexus is a relative newcomer as a standalone luxury brand, I'd say you'd have an arguement, but in the United States the Lexus brand is strong and growing stronger.

1fastdog

Age bracket? Yes. Expectations in styling...pretty much the same.

Darth Xed

Again, in typical fashion, you dance around the point at hand.

I am not saying that Buick is on the same level as Lexus... not even by a long shot, though I think it is a doable thing over time...

Again, the point is... saying Buick buyers are typically on "fixed income" is a baseless and ignorant statement. This has nothing to do with any level of prestige that a car line may or may not have.


The way I see it, BMW and Mercedes are on top of the prestige heap... Cadillac is on the next rung by themselves (rung 1 1/2 if you will)...and moving up fast. Lexus and Acura and Infiniti are on the next rung down.

redzed

I somehow doubt that potential Lexus buyers are looking for styling that features fake "portholes."

A Buick is a rental cars, a Lexus is a luxury car.

redzed

I'd say Buick's fate is to become the next Oldsmobile.

I see plenty of senior citizens of modest means driving new Buicks, but I don't see many people matching that description driving a new Lexus.



I surprised you didn't put Pontiac right up there with BMW

muckz

Well, try riding a car with CR 11.0:1 on a hot day in bumper to bumper traffic that is filled up with 87 octane gas. No, performance is not the only thing you will sacrifice - extended use will put excessive wear and tear on the engine, and you can most certainly do damage. If everything was as simple as the knock sensor, there would be no need to remind customers to put premium fuel.

The thing with BMWs is that they run 1/4 mi much better than one would expect based on the HP numbers alone. Even current 225HP 330 series runs in low 14's - they somehow perform quicker than they ought to. I would not be surprised at all if these cars were very close, within .2 seconds of each other.

muckz

Well, as long as Lexus will offer two models (250 and 350), I don't think it will be 30K. For the base IS250 one, yes, maybe even a little under, but for the IS350 - I expect it to be in mid 30's to upper 30's.

I never thought current 215HP IS300 to be underpowered, it is a rather quick car that can do 1/4 mi in 15 flat, but I was always amazed by BMWs and their mid to low 14s.

Meccadeth

For once, I completely agree with RedZed....all this does is show even more that GM's horrendous V6 family is terribley out-dated against the competition. Where is GM's 300 HP V6? Do they even have on close to that yet? Much less planned on being in a production car? Thank god they have the godly V8's to fall back on, now if they could just advertise them more...

1fastdog

Portholes? No probably not. What they do not look for is standout styling. Lexus are primarily nondescript on the exterior. The buyer's consider this a plus, not a negative.

When Lexus has gone for something further reaching it has been, to me, a bit strange, and glued together looking, Absolutely Asian. It may appeal to some. Me it leaves cold.

The predominant styling they have now is Camry meets 80's Mercedes. It's working for them. Not the sort of stuff that got BMW into the position of the market place they hold at this point.

Lexus needs to win some races if they intend to kick BMW around. There's more than luxury driving buyers in this segment.

YMMV.

Meccadeth

Thats odd...I really like the styling of all these new Lexus's. I don't see anything boring about them, especially compared to the competition (coughcough=mercedescough)

1fastdog

Z28x

Since when is $51K well over $50K?????? find me a $30,000 300HP Lexus.... guess what you can't. the 300HP version will cost over $40K. Do you even research anything before you post?

I don't know if you realize this but the Chevy Camaro uses premium too. You are comparing apples to oranges. Caddy puts out XXX on 87 Lexus XXX on 93, now what happens when you put 87 in that Lexus, all of a sudden it doesn’t perform as well as the 3.6L Caddy V6.

Japanese companies have been using kind of a bate and switch marketing scam with there engines. Notice how they have all jumped up in HP in just the last few years, but they all require premium to run at that advertised HP. Nissan Titan requires 91+ for its DOHC 5.6L to make its 305HP, while Chevy’s 5.3L makes 310HP on 87 all with less displacement and half the valves.

...and you want to talk about vapor-ware

WJH'sFormula

This premium fuel argument is absurd. My little turd of a 7 year old Ford takes premium fuel. So what; instead of costing me $23 to fill up, it costs $25. As long as I can get it at the pump, I don't really care what octane fuel my car takes. Some of the statements on here are really making me laugh.

C'mon. There's not a chance in an icey cold hell that a 315 hp Lexus engine would drop that drastically, not even close. What does the Caddy put out? 250? 260? Are you suggesting that the Lexus would drop 20% of its power due soley to reliance on premium, which as has been said, is defined as 91+, not necessarily 93?

And in reference to the comment about the CTSv's drivetrain ~ The T56 is a rude, rough, sloppy transmission for a Camaro, let alone a $50k Caddy. Drive a Viper and you'll wonder if the thing actually has syncros The upside to it is cost. It's a cheap transmission. Both in initial production and any subsequent maintenance or replacement. Talk to anyone w/ a 6spd C4 Vette and you'll see what I mean.