View Poll Results: What "problem" would you rather have?
A Camaro that is too large
37
48.05%
A Camaro that is too small
40
51.95%
Voters: 77. You may not vote on this poll
Lesser of two evils?
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 4,306
From: Jersey Shore
Re: Lesser of two evils?
How can you say it will all be sacraficed due to weight? We dont know how much this car will weigh. Everyone had the idea the Mustang would be 3700lbs, and it seems as everyone here was wrong. So, what are teh chances that everyone could be wrong again?
The Camaro is a personal sports car, and if making a 2 seater with a shelf as a back seat is what you want, then I suggest you look into a Corvette.
Are you sure you are a Camaro guy? Do you want to see the Camaro to go under again due to lack of appeal?
Your answer isnt what I expected. If we plan on the Beta Camaro weight in at 3400-3500lbs, having a Zeta Camaro at 3500-3650 with improved driving dynamics and more power while giving you more room...you would still take the smaller car?
I think you are thinking with your Enthusiats brain, and not with your Everyday brain.
As an Enthusiast, I want a Beta Camaro
As a Everyday man, and someone who wants to see the Camaro prosper, I want a Zeta Camaro.
Would I buy either one if they came out? Yes as long as it fit my personal specs.
What if we get a Beta based Camaro that handles like garbage?
What if the Beta and Zeta coupes weight about the same...would you still want a Beta based Camaro?
I know I am a Camaro man, and probably one of the very few left on this board. Everyone else is ready to run to the bank and grab as much cash for a new Mustang.
And an xB....Come on man...you can do better the that.
As for a Corvette cutting down on weight, yes its a sports car and it needs to be light. The Camaro needs to serve both sports and common duty.
People who have the cash to buy a Vette can get a second car
People who have a Camaro probably drive it to work. The Camaro has to be useful outside of the 1/4 mile and twistes.
The Camaro is a personal sports car, and if making a 2 seater with a shelf as a back seat is what you want, then I suggest you look into a Corvette.
Are you sure you are a Camaro guy? Do you want to see the Camaro to go under again due to lack of appeal?
Your answer isnt what I expected. If we plan on the Beta Camaro weight in at 3400-3500lbs, having a Zeta Camaro at 3500-3650 with improved driving dynamics and more power while giving you more room...you would still take the smaller car?
I think you are thinking with your Enthusiats brain, and not with your Everyday brain.
As an Enthusiast, I want a Beta Camaro
As a Everyday man, and someone who wants to see the Camaro prosper, I want a Zeta Camaro.
Would I buy either one if they came out? Yes as long as it fit my personal specs.
What if we get a Beta based Camaro that handles like garbage?
What if the Beta and Zeta coupes weight about the same...would you still want a Beta based Camaro?
I know I am a Camaro man, and probably one of the very few left on this board. Everyone else is ready to run to the bank and grab as much cash for a new Mustang.
And an xB....Come on man...you can do better the that.
As for a Corvette cutting down on weight, yes its a sports car and it needs to be light. The Camaro needs to serve both sports and common duty.
People who have the cash to buy a Vette can get a second car
People who have a Camaro probably drive it to work. The Camaro has to be useful outside of the 1/4 mile and twistes.
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 16,176
From: Chicagoland IL
Re: Lesser of two evils?
Ok Al, well thought out post.
BTW, not everyone thought the Mustang would weigh 3700 lbs
.
Regarding Zeta's weight...I think even if it comes with an Ecotec, column shifter and AM radio delete...that thing is not getting under 3600 lbs.
Which would I choose if Beta and Zeta weighed the same? Well, Beta of course.
Why?
More rigid structure.
Smaller, sportier exterior size.
Interior, comparable in size to larger Zeta.
And of course, much more sophisticated suspension.
But Beta won't weigh the same as Zeta....it'll be at least a couple of hundred pounds less.
BTW, not everyone thought the Mustang would weigh 3700 lbs
.Regarding Zeta's weight...I think even if it comes with an Ecotec, column shifter and AM radio delete...that thing is not getting under 3600 lbs.
Which would I choose if Beta and Zeta weighed the same? Well, Beta of course.
Why?
More rigid structure.
Smaller, sportier exterior size.
Interior, comparable in size to larger Zeta.
And of course, much more sophisticated suspension.
But Beta won't weigh the same as Zeta....it'll be at least a couple of hundred pounds less.
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 4,306
From: Jersey Shore
Re: Lesser of two evils?
Well, I guess thats what it comes down too. Will GM go to a sports coupe, or a sports car? What does GM do to handle both enthusiasts and people looking for a sporty car?
Will a Beta car not be enough car for a daily driver? It will most deffinatly have small cargo space, and without the benift of a hatch.
Will a Zeta car be too much heft for enthusiasts? It will weight more then Beta, but less then the GTO.
Like I said, Beta is for the Enthusiast, while Zeta would be more of an everday car. I think both will still offer good performance, and handling will surpass the Mustang.
I also dont think that teh Camaro shoudl benchmark the Mustang. I think that Chevy should antisipate what Dodge will bring to the table, as I see that as more of a risk of becoming top player. 250hp 3.5 V6, 350hp 5.7 Hemi, and 6.2 420hp Hemi.
GM cannot forget about Dodge, or people will deffinatly think twice before buying a Camaro. A 5.7 Hemi priced along the lines of the Mustang GT and middle Camaro would surely be the sales leader.
Will a Beta car not be enough car for a daily driver? It will most deffinatly have small cargo space, and without the benift of a hatch.
Will a Zeta car be too much heft for enthusiasts? It will weight more then Beta, but less then the GTO.
Like I said, Beta is for the Enthusiast, while Zeta would be more of an everday car. I think both will still offer good performance, and handling will surpass the Mustang.
I also dont think that teh Camaro shoudl benchmark the Mustang. I think that Chevy should antisipate what Dodge will bring to the table, as I see that as more of a risk of becoming top player. 250hp 3.5 V6, 350hp 5.7 Hemi, and 6.2 420hp Hemi.
GM cannot forget about Dodge, or people will deffinatly think twice before buying a Camaro. A 5.7 Hemi priced along the lines of the Mustang GT and middle Camaro would surely be the sales leader.
Registered User
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 2,472
From: South Bend, Indiana
Re: Lesser of two evils?
Originally Posted by Big Als Z
Well, as for a big-fat-huge-overweight-Camaro-mafia, lets take a look at some heavy handlers.
E55 and M5 are near or at 2 tons. The Monaro and Commadore, when tuned right, are awesome handling cars for being north of 3500lbs.
Ferrari's, Aston Martains and other large european super cars will reach over 2 tons, yet will leave a 4th gen in the dust.
Take a look at the Ion and SRT4. The Ion is a bigger and heavier car, yet is said to out handle the SRT4. Even the G35 coupe at its 3500lb is pretty nimble.
Its about suspension set up and how the weight is displaced.
Take a look at the G35, which is probably smaller then what our future Camaro will be. Its over the 3400lbs mark. If you can get the weight low enough, and the suspension set up correctly, the car will handle very well. Review like "The Camaro doesnt feel like your lugging around a (insert weight here), but more like a nimble sports car weight far less, and with its LS2 power plant, it pulls that mass right out of the corner with such speed, it makes you want to double check that this car isnt a Vette"
Im sure Chevy could do it. The Solstice is also said to out-handle the much lighter Miata.
Will a lighter car be nice? Yes, but I think no matter what we do, either this Beta chassis, or Zeta, its gunna be north of 3300-3400lbs. I say its going ot be under 3700lbs just from reducing the over-engineered design of the Holden cars.
Here is a qestion I ask you. If this "G35 sized Camaro" is true, yet its weight is about the same as teh G35, would you sacrafice the interior room just to have a smaller Camaro? I think I would take the extra 100-150lbs of a Zeta car and gain WAY more room to make the car a useful car, and not another "2 seater" Camaro.
E55 and M5 are near or at 2 tons. The Monaro and Commadore, when tuned right, are awesome handling cars for being north of 3500lbs.
Ferrari's, Aston Martains and other large european super cars will reach over 2 tons, yet will leave a 4th gen in the dust.
Take a look at the Ion and SRT4. The Ion is a bigger and heavier car, yet is said to out handle the SRT4. Even the G35 coupe at its 3500lb is pretty nimble.
Its about suspension set up and how the weight is displaced.
Take a look at the G35, which is probably smaller then what our future Camaro will be. Its over the 3400lbs mark. If you can get the weight low enough, and the suspension set up correctly, the car will handle very well. Review like "The Camaro doesnt feel like your lugging around a (insert weight here), but more like a nimble sports car weight far less, and with its LS2 power plant, it pulls that mass right out of the corner with such speed, it makes you want to double check that this car isnt a Vette"
Im sure Chevy could do it. The Solstice is also said to out-handle the much lighter Miata.
Will a lighter car be nice? Yes, but I think no matter what we do, either this Beta chassis, or Zeta, its gunna be north of 3300-3400lbs. I say its going ot be under 3700lbs just from reducing the over-engineered design of the Holden cars.
Here is a qestion I ask you. If this "G35 sized Camaro" is true, yet its weight is about the same as teh G35, would you sacrafice the interior room just to have a smaller Camaro? I think I would take the extra 100-150lbs of a Zeta car and gain WAY more room to make the car a useful car, and not another "2 seater" Camaro.
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,000
From: TX Med Ctr
Re: Lesser of two evils?
Originally Posted by Z284ever
Regarding Zeta's weight...I think even if it comes with an Ecotec, column shifter and AM radio delete...that thing is not getting under 3600 lbs.
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 16,176
From: Chicagoland IL
Re: Lesser of two evils?
Originally Posted by HAZ-Matt
What about a swiss cheese Zeta?
Registered User
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,870
Re: Lesser of two evils?
smaller camaro will probably = less weight which in turn = better hp/weight ratio. I can't argue against that. That and the 4th gens were awefully big. I've parked it alongside SUV's, family sedans, an Sn95 and fox mustang, etc.... and the length of my 4th gen was surprising. You look into the cramped interior and wonder where all that size/bulk went, and then you notice the overhangs.
I hope GM takes the same approach with the 5th gens length as they did the corvette. They shortend the c6 by a considerable length over the c5.
I hope GM takes the same approach with the 5th gens length as they did the corvette. They shortend the c6 by a considerable length over the c5.
Registered User
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 325
From: NC STATE
Re: Lesser of two evils?
Hopefully a larger car would have more space under the hood for superchargers/turbos etc for those of us who like to mod... given that hope I'd take a larger and potentially heavier Camaro.
Registered User
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 2,472
From: South Bend, Indiana
Re: Lesser of two evils?
Another thing to keep in mind is that a cars track and wheelbase do make a large difference in how well a car handles. The further away the wheels are from the center of the car, ussually the better handling it is. Zeta's wheels are very far away from the center of the car.
Registered User
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 2,402
From: Toronto, ON Canada
Re: Lesser of two evils?
Originally Posted by Meccadeth
Another thing to keep in mind is that a cars track and wheelbase do make a large difference in how well a car handles. The further away the wheels are from the center of the car, ussually the better handling it is. Zeta's wheels are very far away from the center of the car.
Actually, G35 handles better than 350Z precisely because it is longer wheelbase, so I read in one of the car mags.
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