Latest on the Ford Falcon
06-05-2007, 12:04 PM
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Latest on the Ford Falcon
Some intresting stuff has come up on the Falcon, and since news has been a bit slow here lately, I'll post some things here.
1) The styling of the new Falcon will resemble the Ford Iosis concept car.
Most news articles peg the Ford Mondeo as the car it most resembles. However, word is that although the front does indeed resemble the Mondeo, the body very closely resembles the Iosis, though a little modified to be more practical.
2. The large Ford is dead.... for now
The new Falcon won't have the Fairlane and LTD to go against the Holden Statesman and Caprice. At least not yet. I'll go into this in a moment.
3. The Falcon Ute will be available right away, and the wagon not long afterwards.
Unlike Holden, Ford won't be waiting a year after introduction to bring out the Ute, then another number of months to bring out the wagon. The Falcon Ute will be available very soon after the sedan's production and the wagon is due well within a year of the sedan's debut.
4. Don't hold your breath on it coming to the US.... for now.
The Falcon is going to be made only in right hand drive. There's something coming that's going to be of intrest to us, but again, I'll go into that in a moment.
5. Ford Australia has moved on to it's next projects.
With the Falcon in it's final development, Ford Australia has moved on to a couple of other projects. As the new center of Ford Asia-Pacific, it's working on a Ford Ranger (and Mazda) replacement that's likely to be made in South America or Mexico and shipped here.
6. Ford Falcon's claim to fame will be on steering response and handling.
Ford spent a lot of time on steering and front suspension dynamics. Apparently, the Falcon's control blade suspension will be carried over in slightly modified form due to low cost and effectiveness.
Ford Australia decided to kill off the Fairlane and LTD because of disasterous sales of big cars in Australia. Holden's Caprice and Statesman escaped the same fate only because the business plan for both models included extensive exports to the Middle East, China, and the US which far and away outstripped the numbers they could possibly hope to sell in Australia and new Zealand. Ford headquarters in North America has been very protective of the continued sales of the Crown Victoria in the Middle East, has not been supportive of exports to the US, and has a miniscule presence in China, offering no chance to earn back the investment for a LWB "Orion" Falcon.
However, 2 items have come into play that has changed things since the Orion project reached it's final phases.
First, the Australian Government stepped in to help Ford of Australia, which recently has been all but cut off from proper funding from Ford North America.
One of the stipulations of the funding actually forces the Ford Motor Company to develop versions of vehicles made in Australia for export. The Orion was developed for both left and right hand drive versions, however, inexplicably, Ford voted against Australia making left hand drive versions, which would have opened up the potential for exports to Europe, the Middle East, and the Americas, including the US and Canada.
Second, Ford hired Alan Mulally and granted him extensive authority to do whatever he felt necessary to turn the company around without interference from the Ford family.
Mulally has moved very quickly to globalize Ford and co-ordinate development of various platforms of Ford's empire and to eliminate redundancies. But he arrived too late to have much impact on the upcoming Orion Falcon's business plan. However, he has had an impact on the next version of Falcon, due in the 2011 timeframe. By accounts, that's the point Ford's Rear Wheel Drive Program goes global.
The Ford Crown Victoria is expected to finally die in 2010, it's "Panther" chassis ending a 32 model year run. We had an early peak of the design "rough draft" of it's planned replacement in the Ford Interceptor concept, as well as the Lincoln MK-R (planned as Lincoln's next flagship car). Although the designs are strictly American, and the chassis it will be based on is Mustang's D2C, the engineering work will be done in Australia. Creating a standardized chassis that will underpin all rear drive Ford cars from Lincolns to Galaxies (the working name for Crown Vic's replacement), to Falcons, to Mustangs.
It's the "Galaxie" that will be eventially sold in Australia, the Middle East, and here in the US that will take the place of both the Crown Vic and the Fairlanes and LTDs around the 2010-2011 timeframe.
Until then, Ford Australia will be doing without. With large Ford sales of just over 1100 last year, it's not going to be terribly missed.
http://www.automochatter.com/forum/s...=2623#post2623
1) The styling of the new Falcon will resemble the Ford Iosis concept car.
Most news articles peg the Ford Mondeo as the car it most resembles. However, word is that although the front does indeed resemble the Mondeo, the body very closely resembles the Iosis, though a little modified to be more practical.
2. The large Ford is dead.... for now
The new Falcon won't have the Fairlane and LTD to go against the Holden Statesman and Caprice. At least not yet. I'll go into this in a moment.
3. The Falcon Ute will be available right away, and the wagon not long afterwards.
Unlike Holden, Ford won't be waiting a year after introduction to bring out the Ute, then another number of months to bring out the wagon. The Falcon Ute will be available very soon after the sedan's production and the wagon is due well within a year of the sedan's debut.
4. Don't hold your breath on it coming to the US.... for now.
The Falcon is going to be made only in right hand drive. There's something coming that's going to be of intrest to us, but again, I'll go into that in a moment.
5. Ford Australia has moved on to it's next projects.
With the Falcon in it's final development, Ford Australia has moved on to a couple of other projects. As the new center of Ford Asia-Pacific, it's working on a Ford Ranger (and Mazda) replacement that's likely to be made in South America or Mexico and shipped here.
6. Ford Falcon's claim to fame will be on steering response and handling.
Ford spent a lot of time on steering and front suspension dynamics. Apparently, the Falcon's control blade suspension will be carried over in slightly modified form due to low cost and effectiveness.
Ford Australia decided to kill off the Fairlane and LTD because of disasterous sales of big cars in Australia. Holden's Caprice and Statesman escaped the same fate only because the business plan for both models included extensive exports to the Middle East, China, and the US which far and away outstripped the numbers they could possibly hope to sell in Australia and new Zealand. Ford headquarters in North America has been very protective of the continued sales of the Crown Victoria in the Middle East, has not been supportive of exports to the US, and has a miniscule presence in China, offering no chance to earn back the investment for a LWB "Orion" Falcon.
However, 2 items have come into play that has changed things since the Orion project reached it's final phases.
First, the Australian Government stepped in to help Ford of Australia, which recently has been all but cut off from proper funding from Ford North America.
One of the stipulations of the funding actually forces the Ford Motor Company to develop versions of vehicles made in Australia for export. The Orion was developed for both left and right hand drive versions, however, inexplicably, Ford voted against Australia making left hand drive versions, which would have opened up the potential for exports to Europe, the Middle East, and the Americas, including the US and Canada.
Second, Ford hired Alan Mulally and granted him extensive authority to do whatever he felt necessary to turn the company around without interference from the Ford family.
Mulally has moved very quickly to globalize Ford and co-ordinate development of various platforms of Ford's empire and to eliminate redundancies. But he arrived too late to have much impact on the upcoming Orion Falcon's business plan. However, he has had an impact on the next version of Falcon, due in the 2011 timeframe. By accounts, that's the point Ford's Rear Wheel Drive Program goes global.
The Ford Crown Victoria is expected to finally die in 2010, it's "Panther" chassis ending a 32 model year run. We had an early peak of the design "rough draft" of it's planned replacement in the Ford Interceptor concept, as well as the Lincoln MK-R (planned as Lincoln's next flagship car). Although the designs are strictly American, and the chassis it will be based on is Mustang's D2C, the engineering work will be done in Australia. Creating a standardized chassis that will underpin all rear drive Ford cars from Lincolns to Galaxies (the working name for Crown Vic's replacement), to Falcons, to Mustangs.
It's the "Galaxie" that will be eventially sold in Australia, the Middle East, and here in the US that will take the place of both the Crown Vic and the Fairlanes and LTDs around the 2010-2011 timeframe.
Until then, Ford Australia will be doing without. With large Ford sales of just over 1100 last year, it's not going to be terribly missed.
http://www.automochatter.com/forum/s...=2623#post2623
Last edited by guionM; 06-05-2007 at 01:33 PM.
06-05-2007, 12:12 PM
#2
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Posts: 1,209
Interesting.
It's about time the Crown Vic goes 6 feet under. Ford NA should be using everything at their disposal to turn their fortunes around, and treating Ford Australia like the red-headed stepchild is not a good idea.
It's about time the Crown Vic goes 6 feet under. Ford NA should be using everything at their disposal to turn their fortunes around, and treating Ford Australia like the red-headed stepchild is not a good idea.
06-05-2007, 12:56 PM
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Should Ford step idly away from all the LEA and fleet sales to cab companies, etc - they would be conceding many $million$ per year in very profitable margins.
I personally think Ford should keep the Panther platform and a few of it's derivatives for posterity and "fleet" dedications.
1) Most cops love the CV
2) Many older folks still long for Town Cars and/or Grand Marquis
3) It is the cab of choice in many big cities in the US
4) There is no other body-on-frame unit that can compete with the Panther for cost, assembly, or repair
I'm all for bringing in technology, but I think the Panther has a place in today's market as much as it did 20 years ago, just in different roles - those other than "big family car".
06-05-2007, 02:04 PM
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My 2 cents:
Panther is perfect for a luxury Lincoln and no car better for converting to Limosines. It's survived this long because it's been incredibly adaptable. Look at how many new safety standards, fuel economy standards, and expected levels of quality have come around since the fall of 1978!
The rear fuel tank is in the position where RWD cars are moving their fuel tank for safety (fires from rear end collisions came from Ford changing the bolts on the diff, which tended to rip the fuel tank in ultra high speed...over 70 mph... rear collisions). A new front steering and suspension assembly was adapted some years ago. An IRS system can easily be adapted (no need for a "subframe" when you have a full one). Crown Vic is a cheap and easy to repair police car.
From a sales standpoint, Ford sold 63,000 CVs last year, Mercury sold 54,000 GM, and Lincoln still pushed 39,000 TCs out the door. That isn't even in the same ballpark as the 114,000 Dodge Chargers, the 144,000 Chrysler 300s, or the 58,000 Cadillac DTS sold last year.
From just the sales numbers, one can deduce that while the Lincoln sales have quite a bit of life next to it's key competitor, and cops may still like the CV, the "Panther" as a regular retail car is far past the expiration date.
Even though the profit margins on these things are huge (and by every account, they are) I still gotta wonder if the increased sales (at least double what they are now) might shoot down any debate on a new model based on how much the CV & GM combined are making.
Panther is perfect for a luxury Lincoln and no car better for converting to Limosines. It's survived this long because it's been incredibly adaptable. Look at how many new safety standards, fuel economy standards, and expected levels of quality have come around since the fall of 1978!
The rear fuel tank is in the position where RWD cars are moving their fuel tank for safety (fires from rear end collisions came from Ford changing the bolts on the diff, which tended to rip the fuel tank in ultra high speed...over 70 mph... rear collisions). A new front steering and suspension assembly was adapted some years ago. An IRS system can easily be adapted (no need for a "subframe" when you have a full one). Crown Vic is a cheap and easy to repair police car.
From a sales standpoint, Ford sold 63,000 CVs last year, Mercury sold 54,000 GM, and Lincoln still pushed 39,000 TCs out the door. That isn't even in the same ballpark as the 114,000 Dodge Chargers, the 144,000 Chrysler 300s, or the 58,000 Cadillac DTS sold last year.
From just the sales numbers, one can deduce that while the Lincoln sales have quite a bit of life next to it's key competitor, and cops may still like the CV, the "Panther" as a regular retail car is far past the expiration date.
Even though the profit margins on these things are huge (and by every account, they are) I still gotta wonder if the increased sales (at least double what they are now) might shoot down any debate on a new model based on how much the CV & GM combined are making.
06-05-2007, 04:07 PM
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Originally Posted by skorpion317
Fleet sales do not make a car company. Ford needs a car that they can sell on a retail level as well as fleet.
Agreed - a car company can't exist on fleet sales alone, but somebody has to make vehicles for fleet sales. I don't think Ford or anyone else would plan to be a dedicated fleet vehicle company - and surely we all can see that Ford has other vehicles suited towards commercial and consumer sales.
Imagine the CV becoming a vehicle much like the chassis cab is for the truck division... a basic platform on a frame, ready to modify or finish to the buyer's specs. Cabs may get better seating room and trunk space at the expense of trim and noise control elements. Police cars could get suspension upgrades and configurable rears that offer more equipme nt storage, or more room for containment of suspects, or custom quarters for K9 units, or lots of other combos. The chassis could be sent straight to motor coach works for lengthening into a limo as Guy pointed out. There's any number of things that could be done with a fully-framed vehicle that are limited when dealing with unitized bodies - why not take advantage of the opportunity?
You see where I am going with this by now I hope.
I was (still am) a big fan of the Fusion and FiveHundred - I hope the FiveHundred finally gets the respect it deserves when the name change hits next year. I would love to see the Falcon or Mondeo come to the US - we need it here IMO. All of these will cut into Panther sales - so it's not like I am "Crown Vic or nothing at all". My engineering mind is just telling me that there is a unique and very desireable platform here that is paid for, profitable as hell, and proven - make that 100% bulletproof - in real-world applications... so why throw it away and ignore the possibilities it offers in today's market? If a niche line can be tooled, built, and run profitably on 20-40k cars/year, why in the world can't a niche line that is already tooled and amortized produce 100k units/year and be profitable?!?!
Maybe they just need to re-think how the car is marketed and managed.
06-05-2007, 04:13 PM
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OK - this just hit me...
Marauder...
It comes back with a 500hp blown 5.4, interior directly from a new Town Car (leather, wood grain, etc), low, lean, and mean as hell.
Now honestly... who wouldn't want a 500hp 4-door mafia hit-car with blacked-out windows and trim in their driveway. I nearly jumped at the other Marauder (still looking too BTW), so you know I'd jump on that sick puppy in an instant!
Conversely, who in this world would want a 500 hp Five-Hundred or Fusion?!?!
While the "go" might still be comparable between the Marauder and the FiveHundred, the looks and the presence of the car would just not be the same.
500hp black widow Marauder on 18's... Sick, huh.
Marauder...
It comes back with a 500hp blown 5.4, interior directly from a new Town Car (leather, wood grain, etc), low, lean, and mean as hell.
Now honestly... who wouldn't want a 500hp 4-door mafia hit-car with blacked-out windows and trim in their driveway. I nearly jumped at the other Marauder (still looking too BTW), so you know I'd jump on that sick puppy in an instant!
Conversely, who in this world would want a 500 hp Five-Hundred or Fusion?!?!
While the "go" might still be comparable between the Marauder and the FiveHundred, the looks and the presence of the car would just not be the same.
500hp black widow Marauder on 18's... Sick, huh.
06-05-2007, 04:38 PM
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I'm pretty sure that Hot Rod did a feature story on a tech school that completely re-did a Five Hundred. They gutted the car, took an engine from a Ford GT (donated by Ford from a test mule, no less!), and made the car mid-engined, along with a whole bunch of other modifications. So apparently, someone wanted a 500+ HP Five Hundred 
A black Crown Vic is one of the most badass looking cars on the road today. I just think Ford needs an exciting large car to take away that "taxi, limo, cop car" image.
A black Crown Vic is one of the most badass looking cars on the road today. I just think Ford needs an exciting large car to take away that "taxi, limo, cop car" image.
06-05-2007, 09:32 PM
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In the front, I definitely see the RX-8's fender arch and side vent, just a little more exaggerated. In the back, I can *kinda* see where you might find a little Celica, but not that much. It's got the upper body line like the SN95 Mustang had...which, by the way, was my favorite feature of that car and the reason I like it more than the 98-whatevers.
