I've been coming to this site since, as I recall, about 1999....(I could be wrong -- time flies....) -- and I consider Jason Debler and Chris Frezza as to of the finest people you could want as true Friends. They're the kinda guys that if you needed to talk at 2am - they're THERE......... and they've given their all to this site so that we (that's you and me) can come to a common ground and talk about all things Camaro -- and, in fact, the industry.

I've been welcomed by many - and for that I'm grateful. I guess my purpose is two-fold (at least....) One -- it's a great way to 'take the temperature' if you will - of what our Camaro enthusiasts want in a Camaro. Second-- I guess I'm a frustrated Teacher.

See -- to this day I drive our engineers crazy -- I'm naturally curious -- and I ask them to 'educate me' -- and so I guess, in turn, I try to give everyone a perspective on this industry from an insider, from a dealership perspective (as my family has a dealership) -- and from a fellow enthusiast point-of-view. I wanna learn - therefore, I assume that many others want to learn........

So many sites - so little time -- so I have to be somewhat selective -- but I feel that I owe it to my friends to be here.........


Now...........the REAL purpose of my post.

I opened up my computer earlier today -- (between meetings) -- and logged on and happened to see where Charlie was so kind to post Peter DeLorenzo's editorial -- about the perils of this industry -- specifically - if one of the big three go down -- WE -- (that's YOU and me) are TOAST.

He gives concrete examples of what we may expect.

Don't believe him? Then talk to Dr. David Cole -- he paints a picture that could be a Xerox!

Don't believe HIM? Ask John McElroy or Jeff Gilbert or any other journalist that has an inside view of the industry..........

Now -- I'm simply not believing my eyes when I read some of the 'retorts' in that thread.

I can't believe that anyone can be so foolish.

I can't believe that anyone can ignore facts.

To those who say "let them go out of business" -- I say to you:

>The predicament of the Big Three is not a gameboy where you can reset the game and start over.

>The Predicament of the Big Three is not a computer program - that you can just 'reboot'

>If ONE of the big three go chapter 11 -- it will SEVERELY damage the foreign manufacturers as well. (........as the suppliers will follow the big three) (Mr. N -- as I recall, you work for Nissan -- correct? If you do, you have HUGE RISK in all of this)

>NO ONE can escape the avalanche as the industry goes down. NO ONE. Go back and look at the numbers that Mr. DeLorenzo talks about. You can't escape that.....

GM and Ford and Chrysler are NOT asking for a free handout. Far from it. We're asking for a loan -- on which we'll pay interest.......to make it thru this economic nightmare - the worst in at least 70 years.

The Japanese government has given low-interest loans -- and GRANTS to their national manufacturers for years -- and in fact, the U.S. Government has claimed for years that the Japanese have manipulated the yen......

Are some of you saying that it's OK for the Japanese to help their auto manufacturers -- but it is NOT OK for the U.S. to help ours to stay in business in turmoil such as we find ourselves?

Look -- I can't make people change their minds. This is a free country -- for now....

Let me repeat that: This is a free country -- FOR NOW.....

If you TRULY feel that GM or Ford or Chrysler should go out of business -- then I ask you why you would want to put such hurt on YOURSELF

.........and your family

......................and your neighbors -

...................and the United States itself?

What motivates you? What makes you tick?

God Have Mercy on our country.

 

(continued)

Now -- we have a lot of 'opinions' on this (and other sites)

Let's examine a few, shall we?


If you go back about two to three years ago, some on this site were falling all over Chrysler.....couldn't say enough good things about them.

Where is Chrysler today>


Some people say "Well - GM needs to build what America wants!!" -- and of course, when we DO, we're criticized. Go look at the entire market over the past ten years- and look at how the market moved to SUVs and Trucks. Go look at some truck sites -- go look back and look at the complaints of people waiting and waiting for the Truck or SUV that they'd ordered - and had to wait for -- because all manufacturers could not turn production around fast enough..........

See -- the market can change very quickly -- Look at Toyota - they just completely redid a couple of their SUVs and they come out with a Tundra (quality problems too!) -- and they're caught up in this too.......

so - we built what the public demanded -- and we're wrong...............


Some say "well - you need to get rid of the Unions!" -- Really? Are you sure about that?

Let's take, for example: Warren/Youngstown/Lordstown OHio - so OK -- let's get rid of the union - and make everyone take a 30% pay cut - -what do you suppose happens to those people? More importantly, what happens to the economy???? See -- that area is full of suppliers to the big three..........so it follows that THOSE companies add to the depressed economy once that happens......

See (and I hope you do...) it isn't that simple.

The Union says "well -- the white collar workforce is the problem!" Really?? I can tell you that I'm doing the job that 7 people once did......no, I don't deserve an award -- I'm willing to do so -- because I want the company - and this country -- to thrive. I'm not the only one - the entire white collar workforce is working flat-out.......and the stress is very concerning......


I could go on for hours........

The point? Lotsa armchair quarterbacks -- I'm not saying we shouldn't have discourse - talking about things is good - we learn.

But to say that the Big Three deserve to go out of business?

Sorrry -- there's just something really wrong with that -- because you're really saying that you don't care about what happens to YOU......or your family - or your neighbors - or your country.

The United States of America has huge problems -- and we -- thats YOU and ME -- need to work thru them -- it's time to stop throwing stones -- it's time to look at this as "WE" -- not "ME"......

OK.....I'm done.

 

Well put. I and many others enjoy reading your posts, good to know you will be around.
I can't fathom the huge impact losing one of the 3 would have

 

I will not be so delicate.

Anyone who thinks GM deserves to die needs to look at the shoes they are wearing and wonder how long they will be able to. Reading the news, more people than I ever thought were saying how it needs to happen for some of the craziest reasons....including "What do I care? I don't buy GM". As I posted elsewhere...

I see comments like this and I urge people to stop and think before they say them. I don't think people understand that you cannot watch it happen from a safe distance. We are talking about a global employer. If GM goes down, you and everyone else in this country will be severely impacted.

If GM stops...

• All employees will be out of a job. Staggering number right there.
• All suppliers would be immediately out of business, and all employees would be out of a job. This number is immense and ripples into corners you would never think of. One example is this very site. No vendors to cover hosting costs...site goes down, hosting company loses money. Multiply this by 1,000 sites and hosting companies need to cut back. This is just one small example that can be folded a million times over. Think of the office supply companies, airlines, gas stations, ad agencies, travel agencies, schools, even catering companies that will be impacted by the worlds largest corporations going down. More people out of work and no jobs will be out there.
• What about Ford? Chrysler? Toyota? Some suppliers are customers of both GM and Ford and others. Those suppliers and employees would be out of business immediately as well. So Ford would immediately be severely impacted...and would possibly follow GM...and that number of people out of work would become staggering. Cars by surviving companies would double in price because it is harder to build with less suppliers.

The unemployment situation is bad NOW and look what it is doing to the economy, imagine if 25% or even 50% of the entire country was out of work?

That huge percentage of the US would be not only out of work, but not paying taxes and will be needing government assistance to live. But they will not get it with no one paying into the system...

So...well...

I am thinking that it would get very bad, very fast and the very last thing on anyone's mind will be how GM deserved it. It may very well be not having to kill and eat each other to stay alive. Kinda funny...but perhaps true? I don't mean to sound like a doomsday prophet nor am I trying to be, but this is to illustrate my point that GM collapsing simply cannot happen. It will bring on a depression that will be unlike anything this planet has ever seen, and it will impact YOU, your family and everyone you know.

Again, you can't watch this happen from a safe distance. There is no "do over". It isn't like watching a war on the news in some other country. Please consider the big picture before making statements that you need to hope never come true. I don't think it is okay that this has to happen, I am somewhat frustrated by how things got to be this way, but I will take the thought of GM accepting a LOAN ("bailout" is the wrong term) to survive than the alternative.

 

We live in a society of clueless people. It's no surprise anymore why everything is crashing to the ground. People have no clue. People have no idea what a big chunk of America GM (and Ford, and Chrysler) are.

 

great posts Scott

 

I believe the majority of the folks that "don't get it" by their attitude prove the immature entitlement mentality that is taking over this great nation.

 

I was listening to the news the other day and was totally floored by one of the guests saying how we could do with out the big three automakers. He used Studabaker and some of the older car companies as an example. I was just could not believe what I was hearing. He actually compared one of the worlds largest companies with that of a small car company from 50-60 years ago. All I can say is good luck GM/Ford/ Chrysler.

 

I'm skeptical if throwing money at the situation will fix anything.

Let's be honest, the economic troubles we're having right now didn't cause the Big 3's woes....it only accelerated the timetable. GM's problem is GM. Without a change in leadership & structure, they'll just end up right back where they are now.

 

Very good posts, Scott & Jason.

My mom didn't believe how negative people were about the Big 3.
I began sending her links to articles and escpecially boards where people bash the Big 3 and hope they die.
She was totally shocked.
She told me tonight that if the Big 3 go out of business, we'll ALL be living in tent cities.

 

And CNBC seems to be leading the cause for bankruptcy.
The anchors I saw and their guests all advocated bankruptcy.
I've only seen one guest on CNBC that says that we should not let them go bankrupt.

Oh, and I think Cramer is pro-government help.

 

Let me ask you this: Could it be that the big three are in trouble because it isn't a level playing field?

I ask this because if you go and look at how GM performs worldwide, we outperform Toyota in sales with the exception of two major markets:

>Japan (closed market)
>The United States........


............food for thought.

 

I totally agree that this is part of the problem, but again, if this does not change, how long will it be until we're right back at square one again?

 

Did they mention what you as a taxpayer will pay if we DO go chapter 11?

There are over 2 million people who rely on GM for healthcare -- and there are nearly a million that receive a pension - those costs will be borne by the U.S. Government --

Now -- on top of that -- it's pretty much accepted that the other two will go -- and many of our largest suppliers -- and a ton of small ones as well.

What's the cost to taking over the pensions and healthcare for all of THOSE businesses?

THE COSTS FOR THAT WOULD NOT BE A LOAN -- rather, YOU as a taxpayer would pay for for the next 30 years!!!!

A loan, on the other hand, would be paid back.

I've seen the business plan -- it's workable at a much lower industry sales rate........

........the real problem (in my opinion) is that perhaps we should have done this long ago - the heck with people and what the consequences are!!!! It's all about the bottom line!!!!! (I'm being facetious with those last comments...)

The sad part: Had we not found ourselves in this nightmare of the housing meltdown followed by the run-up in energy costs -- followed by the credit meltdown, we'd be quite profitable.

No one -- NO ONE - could have predicted this 'perfect storm" - -make that 'perfect blizzard'

 

sooooooooo.........have you told your Congressman and Senator that they need to make this a level playing field?

.....for instance, if Germany wants to send cars here, they need to drop their tarriffs when we send cars there??? That either Japan opens their market to U.S. goods or we put up similar trade barriers?

(we've asked them nicely for 30 years to play fair -- they won't...)