Say whatever you want about Jac, but Ford's products have lost alot of flair since he left.

 

True. It was Jac who signed for the Marauder concept, the Forty-nine concept, the new Mustang, the old Terminator Cobras, funded SVT's expansions, the Lightning, the T-bird, and several other vehicles that made a big impact for Ford - even if the impact was purely visual as opposed to financial.

My biggest problem with Jac was that he was a downsizer... in areas that shouldn't have been downsized, like engineering and product development. You can have the best sheetmetal in the world to wrap a car in, but if you don't continue to innovate the chassis, engine, driveline, and user interface of a car, you will eventually lose your customers to companies who do these things. Do I NEED to bring up plastic interiors at this point?!?!

Some of the biggest selling points on cars/trucks/vans these days are innovations... back-up cameras and video screens, DVD players, NAV systems, stowaway seating, even a Mercedes that can park itself for the driver! Some of these cars are ugly as sin, but they sell because people want the new technologies they carry.

Ford lately, IMO, has done a lot with styling and innovation on the F-150, Mustang, and Fusion (like quiet-steel, the My-Color dash, and the Tow-Command module for a few examples), but has really dropped the ball with regards to everything else. There is virtually NOTHING available on an Explorer today that was not available on one in 1995 - except a higher price. Ditto the Crown Vic, and others... point is, just changing the sheetmetal only gets you so far, and Jac is one of those people who had a great taste for the sheetmetal that America wanted, but didn't see the need to invest heavily in technology or innovations to go along with the beautiful skins they were putting on vehicles. The cutbacks in these areas that he (Jac) initiated over a decade ago left a legacy that is still at play in the walls of FMC to this day.

Even worse, Jac cut and hacked from projects that Petersen pioneered before him - and many of those programs were not only ground-breaking for Ford, but for the automotive industry as a whole. Petersen authorized (in fact requested the creation of) the original factory-performance organization known then as the Special Vehicle Organization (SVO), directed by Michael Kranefuss, which created the SVO Mustang for Public sale in 1984. This was revolutionary at the time. That organization went on to become SVT, produce the Cobra Mustangs, the Lightning, and several other notables as well as driving a passion for Ford's performance customers. Many other companies have since followed suit developing TRD, SRT, and other factory groups to mimic what SVT did for Ford. Petersen also presided over the Taurus - a revolutionary car design in every way when it came out. He revived the Mustang from near death, and delivered the legendary 5.0 foxbody Mustang that sold over 3-million copies in a single body design. He brought the F-series back from the ugliest days it ever saw. Moreover, he changed Ford from an also-ran to a leader in quality and passionate product, and gave credibility to "Quality is Job #1".

If anybody needs to "come back" to Ford to fix things, it should be Petersen IMO. The guy was a largely-unappreciated genious.
As for Nasser... I give him his due credit for bringing good designs forth, but I would not care for him to take the helm and drive all products for Ford right now.

 

Proudpony, although I'm not a big Nasser fan, and to this day I'm still wondering what the man was thinking or what medication he didn't take when he was handling Explorer-Firestone episode, you do hit alot of good points with the guy.

On another thread, I went through a laundry list of things that Ford either let wither or failed to carry through. Looking back on all of them, they are from Jac Nasser's period.

Supercharged Thunderbird & Lincoln LS? Nasser.

A full line of DEW-based Lincolns? Nasser.

The redone Crown Vic & the idea of bringing or making Falcons here? Jac again.

Jac was looking at putting the FortyNiner in production, but that was derailed later by Bill Ford himself in favor of the Ford GT (actually, a group including Mays "influenced" Bill).

I also think you're a bit off as far as Nasser discouraging innovation. Until after he left, the new Mustang was planned as a DEW based car that would have competed with Japanese coupes. It would have been along the lines of a bigger G35, and would have had equptment & a pricetag to match. Lincoln was going global and was going to match BMW model for model. He signed off on the killer, high styled interiors on the new F series. But you are right in that he didn't show much intrest (or investment) in Ford's less dramatic cars. Taurus was ignored and so was Crown Vic (perhaps in preparation for the Falcon later??).

I agree 100% with your assesment of Don Peterson. I'd even go so far as to call him the greatest automotive chief in modern history. Nasser essentially eliminated the "Constant Product Improvement" mantra of Peterson, and cut most all of the programs Peterson started to keep that focus, as well as the budget and engineers to carry it out. But as far as SVT, Nasser continued to give them autonomy as long as they brought in money.

Peterson was pretty awesome. Poling was strictly a financial guy, and didn't seem much involved with anything else besides continuing Peterson's policies and getting into verbal jibes with Bob Lutz (Poling was a former Navy pilot & Lutz is a former Marine Pilot). They often joked about "who won the dog fight" or made remarks about the other's branch of service.

Trotman consolidated Ford's global operations and made the company 5 Billion in savings. But then the Mondeo was the most expensive car project in automotive history at that point & the US version crashed & burned, pretty much killing all future efforts to globalize the US market. His Ford 2000 plan hit a wall, leading Ford to pick "Jac-the-knife".

I think Nasser would be perfect for PAG.

Ford should return Lincoln to PAG, give the whole bundle to Nasser with the stipulation that it has to self supporting within a certain period of time. He prefers high value brands anyway. Lincoln keeps the MKZ, MKX, Navigator, and the upcoming MKS till they can be phased out for vehicles based on Rovers & Jags (they still have DEW). operations.

 

I think you misunderstand my definition of "innovation".

Building Mustang on yet another shared platform instead of developing it's own platform and components is not "innovating". (Not that I think the Mustang would not have been successful on the DEW - I'm sure it would have.)

Lincoln was going global... well, yes. BUT, they weren't doing anything new and different than anybody else. Aside from some ideas that were gleaned from Jaguar and Volvo, what "special", new and exciting features were supposed to set Lincoln apart from anyone else in the world? Sheetmetal...

Even the "killer interiors in the F-150"... it's essentially a reskin job. Who didn't know in 2000 that a cheap plastic doorpanel is a cheap plastic doorpanel? Using upgraded materials to do the same job is not breaking new ground IMO.

I'm talking NEW IDEAS - On-Star, HUD systems, NAV systems, air bag systems, 6-spd autos, backup detectors, integrated DVD and entertainment systems - things never seen or done in vehicles before. Ford used to bring out ideas, now they just seem content to copy others or do nothing at all.
Hell, even new engine designs and technology incrementation can be exciting and generate sales once in a while... that thing got a Hemi?

Again, I too give the guy his due credit - he did some really cool things for Ford, but he was very calculating and he actually took MINIMAL risks in the things he had his hand in - at least in so far as making radical design changes and creating new technology and putting fresh new ideas into vehicles.

*Creating a whole new engine family in the mid-80's (the 2.3 turbo) was innovative - Thunderbird Turbo Coupe, Mustang GT-turbo, Merkur XR4Ti, and numerous others came from that move.
*Creating SVO to promote racing and performance equipment straight from the factory - that was unique.
*Developing a push-button entry system was batting .999 in my book. I'd 10-fold rather have that than On-Star to get me in a car with keys locked in.
*Styling for aerodynamics as much as aesthetics - that was bold. (i.e. the Taurus and Probe)
*Marketing a specilly-optioned commercial-duty 1-ton work truck to the common citizen for hobby and play created the Superduty - a HUGE risk that played well.
*Creation of a 4-door, utility wagon, with 4wd, and all the stuff a car offered brought about the Explorer - which DEFINED what an SUV was for over a decade.
*Mark VI, VII, VIII LSC's were just incredible, revolutionary units for Ford and the market - always ahead of their competition IMO. Who ever heard of a 5.0 High-Output engine with dual exhausts in a $30k luxury car, much less one with a 5-spd!!!

I could go on and on, but I think the point may carry more personal conviction than fact - depending on how you define innovation.

Regarding Petersen, there is an interesting quote from him regarding his position about management, and how he became the CEO of Ford...
"Don Petersen, Ford’s CEO during much of the 1980s, increased productivity growth some 3.1 percent annually above the average for all Ford executives. This is perhaps because, as Peterson, MBA ’58, told us, "Ford was so desperate at the time that they decided to put someone in charge who actually knew something about cars and trucks, rather than a bean-counter.""
link to full article

Again - Jac did his thing, and some of it was good.
If he wants to "control" the PAG and has both money and ideas, well I'm all ears... let's see what he's got. But I'll reserve handing the keys to the house over until I know he has something more up his sleeve than rebadging, reskinning, or new leather for the seats and doorpanels. That would be a dandy fix for the short-term, but Ford needs to become design and idea LEADERS if they are going to have any long-term future, and using your benchmark models and brands for litmus tests is just crazy IMO. (not that Ford is treating them much better though)

 

Another interesting read...

Jacques Nasser

"Throughout Nasser's tenure, there were serious concerns about his abrupt, sometimes abrasive management style and treatment of subordinates. It has also been said that Nasser's tough business practices and hardnose manners unsettled and alienated Ford's supplier network, dealerships, and employees."

"Jacques was known for his sharp cost-cutting efforts with Ford's components supplier base, in an attempt to maximize profits and the stock shareholder's dividends. Using the business models of non-automotive companies like Dell Computer and some of the "Dot-com" firms as benchmarks, Jacques sought to increase the company stock "price to earnings ratio" (P/E ratio) from the low single-digit levels of most automotive factory-industrial corporations, to the astronomical levels achieved by the benchmark firms, before the "Dot-com bust"."

and interestingly enough...
"Carlos Ghosn who became CEO of Renault and Nissan Motors is a fellow Lebanese, and is his intimate friend."

Hmmm...
Wonder who Jac is thinking might run Ford's PAG if he can leverage control of it through Ford...

blah....
I have work to do.

 

It would have been. It was going to be loaded with technology, and hense the higher price. Navigation was initially planned.

High quality, better materials, better handling. Pretty much what Cadillac is doing now.

What more can you do to a pickup truck? Listen to what cistomers want, then do it. The new F series has plenty of new ideas and innovations. It doesn't have self adjusting, automatic, massaging seats with genital vibrators, but it still has quite a bit of practical improvements & innovations.

Ford's still the only US maker with OHC V8s in non luxury cars. The SC Cobra was done under Nasser. Trotman can arguable be called the person who let Ford wallow more than Nasser.

I'll give you the calculating part. You got the minimal risks down. But as far as making radical design changes or new ideas, you are the one who brought up the FortyNiner! A supercharged Lincoln McLauren LS is what prompted Cadillac to create the CTSv... heck, the LS lead to the CTS! Merauder. Thunderbird.

God! How the heck did you get me in the position of defending that jerk!


You couldn't get a manual in an Mark 7 LSC, but I get the picture.

Truth is Ford went on a lull after Peterson left in '90, and his successor "Red" Poling retired in '93. Trotman was around till the start of 1999.

Nasser was CEO just over 2 1/2 years.... no doubt, his personality had alot to do with his short tenure. So alot of the things you point out can be set at Trotmans feet (6 years as CEO) and Bill Ford (5 years next month!) who bookended Nasser.


Good one!


There was a book I read from an insider regarding Nassers fall. Judging from the story, I suspect Bill would rather level the place then torch the remains before Nasser runs Ford again, and everyone in the company would eagerly volunteer to help.

I think everyone here knows how I feel about Jac Nasser. He made Ford alot of money, but he did it on alot of bodies and basically turned everyone Ford needed from dealers to OEMs against the company. Ford will never recover the engineering talent they've lost under him. His handling of the Explorer-Firestone scandal was atrocious. But Ford also (in throwing the baby out with the bathwater) aren't going to catch up with where they need to be in global platform sharing that Nasser planned.

Bill Ford still has alot of good will with everyone within the company (and I even like him). But, his 5 year policy of putting only long time cronies or Ford company-lifers in key places isn't injecting life into the company, and has probally done just as much damage if not more to the company as Nasser did.

 

Know what's interesting? I could roll off a list of vehicles that Ford had in the pipeline from 2000 thru 2004, and speculate that many of them would have been runaway hits. But of all the possibilities, I'd have chosen the FortyNine and the Bronco concepts to go forward with.

HONESTLY... this car just reaks of coolness...



and a 'vert model to boot...


HONESTLY... what would have happened if THIS car had come onto Ford dealer lots 2 years in front of the Chrysler 300? Offer the 3.9L V8 and an optional blown 4.6L Cobra derivative in this car, and get ready to count the money. Even today, after the 300C has swallowed huge gulps of mobster-car loving sales, I think this would sell.

Likewise with the Bronco concept...
Given the recent release of Toyota's latest "box", the H3 "box", and numerous other "box" SUVs, why didn't Ford move forward with this? I think it would have been a smash-hit in the SUV world - especially with a cool little 2.3L turbo diesel powerplant. You want torque and fuel economy in a box like this - NOT neck-snapping acceleration - so a European-type diesel would have been just awesome.



WHY didn't Ford bring some of these products to market?

Regardless of Nasser, Trotman, or Bill himself - Ford had a GREAT hand of cards to play between 2000 and 2004, but took the wait-and-see approach, and quite frankly I think they missed the boat by far.
I really like Bill, alot, but I am starting to have reservations about his ability to make plays happen. He obviously has passion for the company, the Mustang in particular (which is good), but he needs to stop playing to the Wall Street pencil-pushers, and start making some decisions... risky ones.
Let's see some radical designs, new ideas, risque lines and new powertrain technology.

It's easy to be an armchair QB on Monday morning, but I swear, I really think I could make sales happen for Ford within 2 years if they'd give me an "at bat".
2-step approach...

1) Inject some pizazz into the current lineup ASAP.
This means moving some things around and specializing...
*Marauder would be back on the lots by March '07 with the blown 4.6 Cobra engine in them.
*Spend a little money on the cash-cow Panther platform. Move Town Car production and keep it alive, and refreshed - old people have money and they love these cars (and there are a LOT of old people these days!!! I'm one of them!). Promote the Town Car for Limo and specialty use. Put a friggin' ENGINE in the P71 cop cars, put some BRAKES on them, tie together the front frame rails and incorporate push-bars, put some special equipment inside the car that is needed by police to do their job (power outlets, switch panels, etc), and market the Crown Vic to law agencies AGGRESIVELY! (meaning that Ford should stop taking patrol cars sales for granted)
*Fusion would be given a "street package" and inherit some goodies from the old SVT parts bin.
*The Lincoln LS will be reskinned, driveline will be updated, and it will be on every Lincoln lot for sale at about a 10% reduction in MSRP. (IMO, given the age of the platform, the tooling should be well (if not completely) depreciated by now, so there is no excuse NOT to sell the LS for less money - making it even more attractive to buyers.)
*The European Focus would be on a boat over here as soon as I could get customs approval and crash testing done. (especially the Rallye version)
*Look seriously at getting the Falcon brought over here asap from Oz.
*Also look seriously at bringing the Persuit sport ute to America from Oz.
*and dammit - CHOOSE THE NEXT CORPORATE PACECAR, AND BUILD IT! In this day and time, every company needs an icon that people attach to... Whether it's the "Daisy" Cobra, the GT-R, a continuation of the GT, or whatever - build SOMETHING special.

2) Make some long-term investments for the future...
*Kick-off a program to expedite hybrid and diesel use in small trucks and SUVs (Ranger, Escape, Persuit, etc), with the expectation of moving these powerplants into the car line after successful roll-out in the trucks.
*Begin an aggressive move towards super-compact vehicles like the Smart cars sold in Europe. The Ford Ka, Ford Fiesta, and Chevy Aveo can serve as starting points, but the new car needs to be even a bit smaller and offer multiple fuel systems, and even 100% electric drive systems or fuel cells. "Small" is where it's going for city commutes and trips to the store.
*Look at the future of the FiveHundred seriously... is a dedicated RWD unit such a far shot? AWD is a good option, but could this car benefit from a European-type diesel - sort-of like a cheaper Mercedes S-class competitor?
*Start looking at platform-sharing between Mazda, Volvo, and Jaguar with a little more flexibility. Don't try to pile all vehicles onto one platform.
*Bring out an upscale version of the Mustang to compete with G35 and BMW 3-series type cars. It MUST be more refined and luxurious than Mustang, but keep the bones and muscle of the Mustang underneath.
*Lastly, implement an Idea Bank that solicits feedback from Ford buyers, and give it some clout. If 80% of the people say they want to see a concept car brought into production - do it. If they want diesel power - do it. If they want a new design - do it.

Ford has the innate ability to move quickly and flexibly WHEN THEY WANT TO. Well, now is as good a time as there ever was to do just that IMO.
They need to infuse some spark and excitement into their name quickly, and then convert that energy into a long-running plan to make customers passionate about their vehicle again. Bill Ford is definitely capable of igniting people's passion, and he can be a great ambassador for the company bearing his name, but he has got to start making something happen besides downsizing (people AND product).

 

Would the Mod motor fit? Otherwise I agree Proud. The FortyNine was such a cool concept, too bad it was never approved.

I'm with you on the Panther as well. Any comments on the 2009 Crown Vic thread?

 

I have to disagree on the Forty Niner. In person, the front end is fugly. If you had to choose between this and the GT, what would you chose? There are only so many dollars floating around. I'm sure the lack of success of the T-bird (we all no why) had an effect as well. Niche vehicles are cool, but those development dollars needed to go to more important vehicles for the bottom line.

 

The FortyNine for sure. The GT is/was a gorgeous, thrilling, high profile car, but a mass market, affordable FortyNine would make a bigger impact.

 

C'mon Charlie, do you honestly think it would be a mass market car? What volume do you think it would sell? If it somehow could keep those lines and sneak in another set of doors (ohh, suicides!), I would give it 80k units. Like it sits now, I think it would be lucky to sqeeze 30k/yr. And what platform would you put it on? Panther? That would be the best bet with the extra capacity at Wixom.

It was meant to be a design experiment just like the Cien or Sixteen. Only I could argue all day the merits of building those cars...

 

Volume? I don't know. You could say 30K, I could say 100K, it's just a guess. Maybe it could match Monte Carlo's volume.

What would it be built on? The concept was a DEW98. Which would mean the need to use the Lima V8 instead of the Mod motor. Unless of course you could merge that program into what became the D2C.

 

That car is SEXY. It makes the Bel Air concept look like pure crap. It captures classic lines with grace and beauty.

Maybe Ford could put it on the F150's frame with new lower suspension so it could replace the Panther and have a volume line to go with it.

 

You gotta remember, this is a CONCEPT car - I seriously doubt a full-production unit would have such exotic flair and detail. But I WOULD expect the production unit to maiuntain the basic shape and lines of this car. As Charlie noted, the (several) powered models that were built were based off the DEW98 (a modified DEW) chassis, and were not so far out of existing production. The black one in these images travelled the nation for Ford's 100th birthday tour, and stopped people in throngs at every show. I sat in it, and was truely taken with it's lines in person... it looks even better in person than in the photos because your depth perception of the curves is magnified in person. This car is sleek.

I'd target this car to hit 30-40k units/year on a platform that (should have been) shared with the T-bird and LS to spread out the costs. Common driveline and powerplant, and most electrical systems with the LS and T-bird. Really, the sheetmetal and interior would be the only unique parts needed for the car. AS I SAID, THIS CAR SHOULD ALREADY BE A 3-YEAR-OLD CAR AT THIS POINT IN TIME. Worse yet, if it was priced to start with a V6 at $20k, 3.9 V8 at $25k, and a blown 4.6 SVT version at $35k - it would sell like a 50-cent hot-dog at the superbowl IMO.

Since the T-bird has already been basted, and the LS is walking into the dog-food factory as we speak, the chance of this car making production now is .5% below 0. Which is DUMB.

FORD missed the boat, dock, city, state, and country with this one, and can only watch in pain and vain as every Chrysler 300 gets sold.

 

No way it could make those prices, or Ford would have corrected the pricing on the T-bird. I also think the T-bird kept this from being built. Talk about overlap. Now a slightly lengthened car on Panther with the mod motors could be on to something. And did I mention 4 doors? A retro CLS so to speak. I find that MUCH more viable.