Thanks, and I agree about the politics too. It's hard not to put labels on things sometimes - for all of us. Fact is, I can sling just as much trash at the Dems as I can the Reps. Any label that should be brought to bear should be the one that says "government", because that whole big bundle of bureacracy is a big reason for most of the mess we are discussing.

Again - a good point. I really don't ever recall saying that supply and demand has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the prices (and certainly not saying you did either - just making a point here - please bear with me). I certainly do thing that S&D has something to do with it, but I also am totally convinced that there is more to it that that alone. In recent months, I have convinced myself even more that there are other forces at play and they are having even more effect on the prices at all levels - from crude to pumps - than ever before. Maybe that is where the argument for pricing needs to sit for a while, and lets see what happens after new years.

Interested in what anyone else has to say about all the recent financial developments though.
I was actually thinking about this on the plane home Friday night and was trying to link how much the financial freefall might be having on the oil prices... and why. I think there's a correlation there, but can't get my finger on it.

Anyways - good post. I'm home for 5 days and will try to get back on the board more after I get caught up on some chores, honey-doos, and some "down-time" with the family and the misses (especially the misses! ).

 

Our local Richie Rich (Aubrey McClendon, Chesapeake Energy) was forced to sell most of his personal stock due to huge margin call. I seem to remember hearing something about the oil speculators having to do the same and therefore oil prices plummet as a result of their massive margin-call sell-off....?

 

Should leave some great energy companies ripe for the picking.

 

I had been thinking about this for the past several days - the developments in Pakistan are rather interesting.

It wasn't so long ago that they were protesting and willing to react decisively to any US strikes on its territory.

Then, such talks in the MSM died... You now read about strikes killing so many people here and there, and no word of protest.

Interestingly, Pakistan is now in talks with IMF because it may default on its loans. We all know what IMF does and how it plays globally. Looks like Pakistan may finally be brought down on its knees after all and submit to the globalist agenda. Or, it may end up securing a deal with the US gov't on some $5 billion that it needs.

What does this have to do with this thread? Well, that global situation is rather complex, which includes not just governments but also various commodities like oil. Bottom line - it is all (incl oil and nat resources) political. I think the example of Pakistan illustrates how certain powerful entities can get their way. Yesterday we were at war with Eastasia. Today, we were never at war with Eastasia - it was always Eurasia.

 

FWIW, paid $2.26/gallon Sunday morning (100% gas).

 

So crude oil prices are now back under $US70/bbl.

Can we (once 'n for all) categorically agree that oil prices have nothing at all to do with supply and demand?

Thank you, peoples!

 

$1.99/gallon yesterday in OKC...

 

Nothing at all? Some of you guys slay me. Demand for crude has slowed due to the worldwide economic slowdown. Speculation has certainly played a huge part in pricing, but just because the argument has merit doesn't mean you can take it to such a ridiculous extreme. You should just stick to parrotting PP's arguments, you seem to get into trouble whenever you venture out and try to think on your own.

 

Um no...

 

OK, I will answer the S&D crowd

There are great economic slowdowns happening. You bet that the demand for EVERYTHING will go down as people will concentrate on day-to-day survival, at least if we're going to end up in a depression (and while I'm not claiming that it will happen for sure, there is good indication that it might). But, IS IT HAPPENING RIGHT NOW? And if yes, to what extent?

It's not like we hit depression between July 2008 and now, October 2008, and people started realizing that they cannot afford gas. It's not like people started to divert money away from gasoline to foods, at least not yet. This is a too short period of time.

People's driving habits in North America did not change much when gas was going up steadily yet steeply. Then gas became cheaper, and prices at the pump fell. Wouldn't this encourage people to resume their driving habits? That would ensure the demand, if it dropped due to extraordinary high price of crude in July, would now start to climb back up, no?

Now that OPEC cut production, thus reducing SUPPLY, the prices do not seem to change. Maybe it will take time, we'll see, but so far no changes in the upward direction. On the contrary, they fell more.

If you are suggesting that the entire world is using less gas right now, and that's why prices are cheaper - I have a question for you. Is that so? It could be so, but I don't see the evidence for it. Maybe I'm not looking for that evidence at the right places, so if you do, I'll be glad to read it. Are people driving less these days? Are transportation companies shutting down because they cannot afford gas? To what extent is the transportation industry affected RIGHT NOW to cause a drop in demand? I am not saying that it is not happening, but so far, I don't see the evidence for this. It appears that the business is as usual for most, and everyone's attention is on the worldwide economy.

Once worldwide depression ensues (if it will, that is), that's when you can expect companies shutting down, and that's when demand for gasoline will wane, to be replaced by diversion of funds toward essentials - food, clothing, housing.

Basically, to summarize, we have not seen any global changes that would affect the daily use of gasoline. No region started to move to ethanol in the last 3 months. No region converted to electrical cars (read up on Shai Agassi's project - very intriguing). There are no food shortages at grocery stores to indicate that transportation companies closed their doors. Strikes by truckers on high oil prices have stopped. Everything returned to normal, now that has is 50% cheaper than it was in July.

 

Demand for crude has slowed hah! Care to provide proof of this instead of just stating baseless opinion - that's exactly how you get yourself into trouble, if you haven't learned already?

Given we've heard every excuse under the sun, from the threat of hurricanes, to China and India consuming too much oil, to claims that we've reached peak oil... where in just two short years where the price of crude has gone from $50/bbl to over $140/bbl to now under $70/bbl... it's beyond belief that any sane person can concluded it's supply/demand driven. When the Iranian president comes out and declares the price increases were fake... it tends to lend credibility to what some of us are saying, here.

It defies belief that some persons (like yourself) could keep a straight face and say it's supply/demand driven! Not when the facts are right before you.

Well some think the world is still flat...

 

^If it wasn't a supply/demand issue...why would opec cut production? IF it had nothing to do with oil demand cutting consumption would have no effect.

Gasoline and oil inventories are all up more than expected...a clear indication of demand destruction (unless you believe they make all that **** up). All you have to do is remove yoru tin foil hat a few times a day and read some articles. One of thousands of examples right now if you search google news will pull up this: http://www.reuters.com/article/domes...49K7ES20081021.

 

stick it to the man.

 

It's cheap now because of the election, it will skyrocket thereafter.

 

Don't think for a second that any huge taxes levyed on the oil company's won't be passed right onto US at the pump! Oil co.'s will continue to make big $$$$$ regardless !!