It's Official - Exxon Hits Record Profits for Any Corporation Ever
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,123
From: Melbourne, Australia
^If it wasn't a supply/demand issue...why would opec cut production? IF it had nothing to do with oil demand cutting consumption would have no effect.
Gasoline and oil inventories are all up more than expected...a clear indication of demand destruction (unless you believe they make all that **** up). All you have to do is remove yoru tin foil hat a few times a day and read some articles. One of thousands of examples right now if you search google news will pull up this: http://www.reuters.com/article/domes...49K7ES20081021.
Gasoline and oil inventories are all up more than expected...a clear indication of demand destruction (unless you believe they make all that **** up). All you have to do is remove yoru tin foil hat a few times a day and read some articles. One of thousands of examples right now if you search google news will pull up this: http://www.reuters.com/article/domes...49K7ES20081021.
Please don't pass off that stupidity as sound reason, I'm far too clever than that!
To answer your question regarding OPEC... that's baloney. They'll say what the main consumers want them to say. They'll make their money regardless. People depend on oil. It's a necessity, so even if the price skyrockets, the drop in demand is not great!
Please also explain how the reasons for the increase was due to China and India consuming too much... what now, don't tell me they've stopped using oil. That $2,000 Indian car must have been a huge flop, hey!
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,802
From: Annapolis MD
OK, I will answer the S&D crowd 
There are great economic slowdowns happening. You bet that the demand for EVERYTHING will go down as people will concentrate on day-to-day survival, at least if we're going to end up in a depression (and while I'm not claiming that it will happen for sure, there is good indication that it might). But, IS IT HAPPENING RIGHT NOW? And if yes, to what extent?
It's not like we hit depression between July 2008 and now, October 2008, and people started realizing that they cannot afford gas. It's not like people started to divert money away from gasoline to foods, at least not yet. This is a too short period of time.
People's driving habits in North America did not change much when gas was going up steadily yet steeply. Then gas became cheaper, and prices at the pump fell. Wouldn't this encourage people to resume their driving habits? That would ensure the demand, if it dropped due to extraordinary high price of crude in July, would now start to climb back up, no?
Now that OPEC cut production, thus reducing SUPPLY, the prices do not seem to change. Maybe it will take time, we'll see, but so far no changes in the upward direction. On the contrary, they fell more.
If you are suggesting that the entire world is using less gas right now, and that's why prices are cheaper - I have a question for you. Is that so? It could be so, but I don't see the evidence for it. Maybe I'm not looking for that evidence at the right places, so if you do, I'll be glad to read it. Are people driving less these days? Are transportation companies shutting down because they cannot afford gas? To what extent is the transportation industry affected RIGHT NOW to cause a drop in demand? I am not saying that it is not happening, but so far, I don't see the evidence for this. It appears that the business is as usual for most, and everyone's attention is on the worldwide economy.
Once worldwide depression ensues (if it will, that is), that's when you can expect companies shutting down, and that's when demand for gasoline will wane, to be replaced by diversion of funds toward essentials - food, clothing, housing.
Basically, to summarize, we have not seen any global changes that would affect the daily use of gasoline. No region started to move to ethanol in the last 3 months. No region converted to electrical cars (read up on Shai Agassi's project - very intriguing). There are no food shortages at grocery stores to indicate that transportation companies closed their doors. Strikes by truckers on high oil prices have stopped. Everything returned to normal, now that has is 50% cheaper than it was in July.
There are great economic slowdowns happening. You bet that the demand for EVERYTHING will go down as people will concentrate on day-to-day survival, at least if we're going to end up in a depression (and while I'm not claiming that it will happen for sure, there is good indication that it might). But, IS IT HAPPENING RIGHT NOW? And if yes, to what extent?
It's not like we hit depression between July 2008 and now, October 2008, and people started realizing that they cannot afford gas. It's not like people started to divert money away from gasoline to foods, at least not yet. This is a too short period of time.
People's driving habits in North America did not change much when gas was going up steadily yet steeply. Then gas became cheaper, and prices at the pump fell. Wouldn't this encourage people to resume their driving habits? That would ensure the demand, if it dropped due to extraordinary high price of crude in July, would now start to climb back up, no?
Now that OPEC cut production, thus reducing SUPPLY, the prices do not seem to change. Maybe it will take time, we'll see, but so far no changes in the upward direction. On the contrary, they fell more.
If you are suggesting that the entire world is using less gas right now, and that's why prices are cheaper - I have a question for you. Is that so? It could be so, but I don't see the evidence for it. Maybe I'm not looking for that evidence at the right places, so if you do, I'll be glad to read it. Are people driving less these days? Are transportation companies shutting down because they cannot afford gas? To what extent is the transportation industry affected RIGHT NOW to cause a drop in demand? I am not saying that it is not happening, but so far, I don't see the evidence for this. It appears that the business is as usual for most, and everyone's attention is on the worldwide economy.
Once worldwide depression ensues (if it will, that is), that's when you can expect companies shutting down, and that's when demand for gasoline will wane, to be replaced by diversion of funds toward essentials - food, clothing, housing.
Basically, to summarize, we have not seen any global changes that would affect the daily use of gasoline. No region started to move to ethanol in the last 3 months. No region converted to electrical cars (read up on Shai Agassi's project - very intriguing). There are no food shortages at grocery stores to indicate that transportation companies closed their doors. Strikes by truckers on high oil prices have stopped. Everything returned to normal, now that has is 50% cheaper than it was in July.
Why its dropped now Im not sure. Like you said people have been cutting back on everything. I went to 3 brothers resturant the day the stocks feel the first day and it was uncarachteristicly empty. Completely. Gas to get to resterants and other things is cutting back, and Im sure people are cutting back on going places that arent neccesary. I dont know about lay offs but if there has been thats people not even driving to work but I doubt that has happened that quickly. Is this a reason for the drop? I dont know. Just some ideas...
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Joined: Dec 2005
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From: Annapolis MD
I may be a glutton for a headache here but what do you think the reason for OPECs existance is if not as a make shift monopoly to adjust supply Supply to get the desired profit?
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,123
From: Melbourne, Australia
http://www.opec.org/home/
But please, don't avoid the basic question... oil is just on $60/bbl today and using the above figures of 6.4% drop in oil demand, there is no good reason for oil to more than double (> $US140) and restore its price in a little over a year. And that's with OPEC's influence. Now explain to me what OPEC's role was, again!
The oil price increase is probably what caused the global economic downturn in the first place... families on the edge, tipped over the edge. Result? Houses and business being lost to the banks...
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 915
From: Tucson, AZ
Couple that with poor economic conditions worldwide (including China) and stagnant if not lower oil demand globally and you get lower prices. It's simple. There is a grand conspiracy - that conspiracy is to keep production as close to demand as possible to maximize profits. Beyond that, it's unprovable conspiracy theories.
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,123
From: Melbourne, Australia
China's gross domestic product increased 9 percent in the third quarter from a year earlier, the weakest pace in five years, as the global slowdown saps demand for Chinese products. China is the world's biggest oil consumer, after the U.S.
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,802
From: Annapolis MD
Google is your best friend.
http://www.opec.org/home/
But please, don't avoid the basic question... oil is just on $60/bbl today and using the above figures of 6.4% drop in oil demand, there is no good reason for oil to more than double (> $US140) and restore its price in a little over a year. And that's with OPEC's influence. Now explain to me what OPEC's role was, again!
The oil price increase is probably what caused the global economic downturn in the first place... families on the edge, tipped over the edge. Result? Houses and business being lost to the banks...
http://www.opec.org/home/
But please, don't avoid the basic question... oil is just on $60/bbl today and using the above figures of 6.4% drop in oil demand, there is no good reason for oil to more than double (> $US140) and restore its price in a little over a year. And that's with OPEC's influence. Now explain to me what OPEC's role was, again!
The oil price increase is probably what caused the global economic downturn in the first place... families on the edge, tipped over the edge. Result? Houses and business being lost to the banks...
http://www.opec.org/home/ OPEC's mission is to coordinate and unify the petroleum policies of Member Countries and ensure the stabilization of oil markets in order to secure an efficient, economic and regular supply of petroleum to consumers, a steady income to producers and a fair return on capital to those investing in the petroleum industry.
How they ensure a "fair" return on capital, is through the makeshift Monopoly as Ive said. They adjust supply as demand fluctuates to get the profit they want. Oil is NOT what caused overinflated housing bubble to burst. They were way over inflated
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,802
From: Annapolis MD
The US is the world's largest oil product, thus we have the biggest effect on prices. 8.5% drop in demand here in the the last 4 weeks versus last year (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...Q&refer=canada).
Couple that with poor economic conditions worldwide (including China) and stagnant if not lower oil demand globally and you get lower prices. It's simple. There is a grand conspiracy - that conspiracy is to keep production as close to demand as possible to maximize profits. Beyond that, it's unprovable conspiracy theories.
Couple that with poor economic conditions worldwide (including China) and stagnant if not lower oil demand globally and you get lower prices. It's simple. There is a grand conspiracy - that conspiracy is to keep production as close to demand as possible to maximize profits. Beyond that, it's unprovable conspiracy theories.
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 1,214
From: City of Champions, MA, USA
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Joined: Mar 2005
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From: Melbourne, Australia
Irving, Texas-based Exxon said net income slid sharply to $7.8 billion, or $1.55 a share, in the October-December period. That compared to $11.7 billion, or $2.13 a share, in the same period a year ago, when Exxon set a U.S. record for quarterly profit.
Despite the fall in profits for the last quarter, I don't see that jobs will be at risk at EM despite the concerns from some here.
Thread Starter
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Joined: Mar 2002
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From: Yadkinville, NC USA
There has been much said and uncovered regarding the fleecing we took last year. Several documentaries on the subject. I find it interesting that those who said it was all market-driven supply/demand have not tried to discredit the investigative journalists who have now interviewed and written about the investor who bailed from oil because of fears of governmental intervention and also because of the explosion in foreclosures and the housing slump.
It appears that folks in America spend more on their mortgage payments every month than they do on their gasoline... hmmm. The big boys hunt where the big game is.
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 140
From: Dacula, GA
Despite the fall in profits for the last quarter, I don't see that jobs will be at risk at EM despite the concerns from some here.
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,123
From: Melbourne, Australia
Yes what a crying shame more people aren't losing their jobs. I personally don't like to hear about this happening to anybody at all, except maybe that Wall Street ******* who spent seven figures redecorating his office after accepting bailout money. This is where the real fleecing is going on. I read the other day that less than 10% of executives at financial firms accepting bailout money have been shown the door. This concerns me. XOM, at this time, does not.
As far as the banks fleecing us, no arguments from me... see my post!
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,802
From: Annapolis MD
j
I have to admit to not knowing what youre talking about with what investor bailed or what youre driving at so Ill risk sounding dumb here. Who wouldnt bail with risk of govt intervention? Im thinking with the housing slump and market plunge and this is a total guess, that one possible explination in the drop in demand might be a drop in fleet/commercial vehicle use as business dropped, as well as those laid off employees not driving to work everyday maybe? Housing slump and market forclosure explosion is killing demand for most everything. I dont know, but OPEC cut supply its going back up. Im also thinking with the unemployment on the rise housing prices might fall even lower as well with the amount of people that can afford them dropping.
There has been much said and uncovered regarding the fleecing we took last year. Several documentaries on the subject. I find it interesting that those who said it was all market-driven supply/demand have not tried to discredit the investigative journalists who have now interviewed and written about the investor who bailed from oil because of fears of governmental intervention and also because of the explosion in foreclosures and the housing slump.
It appears that folks in America spend more on their mortgage payments every month than they do on their gasoline... hmmm. The big boys hunt where the big game is.
It appears that folks in America spend more on their mortgage payments every month than they do on their gasoline... hmmm. The big boys hunt where the big game is.
Last edited by 5thgen69camaro; Feb 2, 2009 at 01:17 AM.