Mean every word. You've known me too long to think I'm a shyster or that I have anything to hide. I call 'em as I see 'em.
Honestly, it would behoove you to take an hour or so and go through the thread. Skim it until you see something that interests you then look into it. There have been a few periods (like this recent stuff over a comic strip ) that are a waste of your time, but there are MANY good links and posts in here that will open your eyes wide if you are interested.

Myself included... I'm not into the "doom and gloom" theories and preaching that the end is coming. I'm actually a pretty happy, fun-loving guy that is into family, friendships, having a good time, and moving through this world the right way - helping others when I can and trying to leave it better than it was when I got here. Despite what I know and think, and what's in this thread, I still don't prescribe to any big conspiracy theory. BUT I DO know the nature of the human animal, and all throughout recorded history there has been a greedy persuit to have "more". Napoleon, Caesar, Ming, King Henry IV, King William, Hitler... you name it, there's person trying to rule more than his fair share. I simply don't think the world (or the humans in it) is any different now than it has been for the last 10,000 years, except that today they can rob you blind with a pencil instead of a sword or gun. To deny that there are extremely powerful people in the world controlling policy and procedure that governs our everyday lives is simply to be in a coma.

But in short, to me, there is no more of a conspiracy theory taking place now than there was when Rome was trying to rule the world a millenium ago. It's no "theory", it's human nature.

Indeed I agree. There are new paths and approaches (from many sides) that are on the table here.

And you only referenced the top 2% of US citizens that live here and pay (some) taxes here. NONE of those are in the top 5 of the wealthiest in the world - by far. In short, the wealthiest Americans mean squat compared to the wealth of European, Asian, and Arab financiers and royalty - those bodies existed THOUSANDS of years before America was even founded as an independnt nation, and they were building wealth the whole time.


Summed up nicely.
As I have been saying myself - get out of debt, and get the USA out of debt. Debt is the poison that financiers use for control. In centuries past, you never fought a war you could not afford, because you would lose - plain and simple. Today, it is not only tried, but prolonged. The only winner in a war financed by debt is the lender. Be that personal, corporate, or national.

You are stating the obvious - again. Thanks for seeing it too and putting it down in your words.

What frosts my baIIs is that MANY people became VERY WEALTHY while these financial companies were cooking the books and making 2nd and even 3rd mortgages on EXPENSIVE properties. Now that the fat lady is singing, they want the taxpayers to come out and pay the bill. BS on that crap... give me a list of people who walked out of these failing firms with tens-of-millions in funds they did not deserve, and I'll go bust their @ss! Let's go seize their accounts and use their dough to pay some of this crap back off. There should be no statute of limitations on a crime of theft or blackmale.

Also, it's not like the government "allowed" this to happen... they FACILITATED IT, and even CONTRIBUTED TO IT by financing all of this war in Afghanistan and Iraq, financing these bailouts, financing their own operation, etc. People of both parties voted for the war on an adjective - so this is not a "party" thing... it's a right/wrong thing, and it's time to fix it. The slimy truth is that in this day and time, it's the same big corporate players that run the businesses that are in government and run it too. The two are shamelessly and hopelessly intertwined.

Bailouts... Guy, let's you and I start a lending business tomorrow with about $500k in capital and assets, and run it into the ground in 3 months by loaning money to crooks that will give us new cars to drive and fly us to vacation spots and "take care of us". Then we'll go see if the government will cover OUR bad loans and decisions and see if little old you and me can keep OUR business afloat.

 

Good post mate.
What's embarrasing to me as an American is that this guy lives 12,000 miles away, and he knows more about what's really going on here than 80% of the people LIVING HERE.


"...and it's got nothing to do with Left or Right views... it's 'Greed' that is the new position on the political spectrum."
In more ways than you know.

I've said and given examples of how both parties have their share of guilt - to the point where is is simply above a Left or Right wing view. It's a totalitarian view now - it's time to stop the wasted bickering over trivialities and start addressing the REAL problems.

 

The thing is Proud... I love my country and I understand that if America goes down the toilet, so does my country. Put simply, I don't want to see America go down the toilet! There's good reason why it was once the greatest country in the world but I'm concerned that the 'powers that be' are corrupting the nation to the point where its recovery is irreversible.

 

So are you saying that because I say I dont agree with you, or the people who believe that Supply and Demand are applied to oil actually believe that Supply and Demand are grasping at for a farse because the reality that gas prices could be infinate would be too harsh and we would not want to deal with it? I really believe you believe what you are saying and have good intentions. Do you really belive I dont think Supply in Demand is the biggest factor? I believe that you and proud believe your stand point and both have good intentions even though I disagree. You dont even have to respond, its not a loaded question, your post piqued my curiosity.

yes I agree thats the way buisness works. You can call it greed, success, or profit depending on whether you like or agree with the company, actor, or athlete you are currently discussing.

btw 8 years ago was during the tech boom and the recession didnt start after the election, but theres no point in arguing.

But it is strange to have these opinions then clame this

I never understood the need to apear unbiased when youre not. I dont mean that as a knock, but if those are youre views why not say so. I always do. That doesnt mean you cant change your opion what you believe or who you agree with. You can always change your mind later as perspective changes for what ever reason. Not that you have to put up a disclaimer, but I definately dont understand actively claiming to be unbiased when it doesnt seem to be the case.

We are going to have to disagree on that one. I think its kind of interesting that you even used the word collectively, when saying our government elected officials are only going to be able to pull us out of this mess. I dont understand how you could sugest Government run health insurance, putting Government in the Health Insurance buisness and provided to the people, and suggest that Socialism as a term is antique and useless. That is Socialism. Much more immediate is our government is discussing bailing out companies lately. If our government invests putting itself in those buisnesses that is also Socialism good or bad, regaurdless of who is doing it.

Take this to heart when I say no disrespect intended. I am just as pasionate in what I believe as people who disagree with me.

 

That was almost predictable if not strangely elitist. If you think Greed or being successful is new. Its almost interesting to the point of wondering if you think that because this is the point in time you exist in and it didnt exist before, or if you are refering to just wealth and success and it is that you dont understand Capitalistism thrives on incentive of personal profit motivation to better ones self, or not at all.

Honestly the only new plan Ive heard was pickens. Im starting to like parts of it. Not thrilled about the government becomming investors but Im on the fence on that. Windfall profits taxes were a Carter plan I think. I cant imagine those taxes not being passed to the consumer. I dont like the idea anyway. Maxine Waters however slipped up when she outright said she wanted "Socialize" big oil and the government seizing and taking over everything... Thats Communism

http://www.bordeglobal.com/foruminv/...f=167&t=32238&


I agree completely on the bailouts. But Im glad we went into both Afganistan and Iraq and I think weve made a difference in both. Afganistan I think will take longer because it seems to me there are fewer resources to sustain a more successful economy to where they can self sustain a police and military force alone.

I do have two questions at risk to discrediting myself and I think Price gouging is wrong.

Do you think when Price gouging occurs during natual disasters is that due to supply and demand?

Should we have not gone into afganistan?

I know youre joking, but if youre saying the government shouldnt be bailing out people or companies Im with ya But that puts me torn on the whole Pickens and GM deals...

 

You've convinced me that you cannot add anything remotely constructive or meaningful to this discussion. You rant like a drunken hobo who's wondered in off the street, gate crashing a bbq... You've proven you don't have much of an idea about anything. As long as you keep contributing to this thread, there's every likelihood it will be closed!

 

A few weeks ago I posted that WaMu was next... Well, it was bought by jp morgan.

What do I see happening? All businesses are being consolidated and the government gaining tremendous power w no oversight. I can't post much, doing this from my phone, but this does resemble fascism... Which combines corporations and governments. Study 1930s Germany and Hitler's ascension to power, see how similar the US is. Except hitler controlled corporations through govt and now govt is controlled by corporations. Its just a large power grab, and it has usually been done for a purpOse before. We'll see what the purpose is now.

 

There is a VP of Bank of America (they are based less than 1 hour from me in Charlotte, NC) that lives in my school district. He and myself and the owner of Reavis Oil Co (a local supplier of heating oils)were talking while our daughters were at at soccer practice last night. The VP says there will be no more than 4 or 5 "superbanks" left standing when the dust settles. There will be no middle-sized players, and there will be the tiny community banks. Superbanks will control it all. Community banks will be burdened with small accounts, customer service, and face-to-face daily activity. What we are seeing now is the consolidation of the top 10-15 into the top 5, and it's not done yet.

Ironically, the VP of BoA actually had to go to a local bank to open an account for hi girl's soccer league. BoA couln't/wouldn't open an account for the non-profit girls soccer league. He was frosted over that one and shared details with us last night.

Mr. Reavis shared some pricing information with me regarding what his suppliers are telling him. It's blackmail. They hold the shipment hostage for a price increse - just like the lady at the gas station in High Point. Both of these guys are in agreement about the transfer of wealth and oil pricing.

Interestingly, we are all strangely split on the bailout thing. One guy was explaining how a financial analyst said that the investment was a no-lose proposition for the $700B... it's buying sub-prime mortgages that means they are actually buying the deed to the properties. Is till think it's risky. But I certainly do like the idea of limiting the pay of the execs,

I plan on spending some time tonight reading on the details of the latest proposal. I'm sure it will make for interesting study.

OH YEAH... I sold another car Wednesday night - guy had to writeme a check since the ATM wouldn't spit out that much. Cashed it yesterday. Guess where the cash is? That's 3 Mustangs in about 1 month... the nest egg is looking nice now.

 

OK folks... I TOLD YOU SO.

WaMu becomes biggest bank to fail in US history

"NEW YORK - As the debate over a $700 billion bank bailout rages on in Washington, one of the nation's largest banks — Washington Mutual Inc. — has collapsed under the weight of its enormous bad bets on the mortgage market.

The Federal Deposit Insurance Corp. seized WaMu on Thursday, and then sold the thrift's banking assets to JPMorgan Chase & Co. for $1.9 billion."
What should strike you here is that the FDIC seized their assets, then sold them to JP Morgan chase for $1.9-Billion.


"Seattle-based WaMu, which was founded in 1889, is the largest bank to fail by far in the country's history. Its $307 billion in assets eclipse those of Continental Illinois National Bank, which failed in 1984 with $40 billion in assets"
YES - that's right. WaMu had $307 Billion in assets (that were seized supposedly as noted above), and sold to JP Morgan-Chase for $1.9 Billion.
WHAT A DEAL! I wish I was in on action like that, don't you?!?!

"JPMorgan Chase is now the second-largest bank in the United States after Bank of America Corp., which recently bought Merrill Lynch in a flurry of events that included Lehman Brothers Holdings Inc. going bankrupt and American International Group Inc., the world's largest insurer, getting taken over by the government."

What did I say before... 4 or 5 superbanks controlling it all, and community banks to do the dirty work.

Still, mighty nice of the FDIC to seize $307B in assets and sell it same day to JPMC for $1.9B, huh?

Word to the wise, get your money (or at least enough to live on for a while) and keep it close to you for a while. The next big thing will be watching the dollar continue to slide into oblivion as the world realizes we have nothing left to "pawn or hock" for more money.

 

And this could open Pandora's box on how these larger banks have used credit to keep people under their control and financially pinned-down.

Credit card insiders tell of deceptive practices
"Two former employees of credit card issuer MBNA, now owned by Bank of America, said on Wednesday they were forced to use aggressive and deceptive practices with customers in order to boost revenues.

Cate Colombo, from Maine, said she signed up for a customer service job but was instead instructed to make insistent sales pitches aimed at getting MBNA customers deeper into debt.

"I was hired to sell money," she said on a conference call organized by Americans for Fairness in Lending, an advocacy group. "We had a goal of selling $25,000 an hour, $4 million per month. And I was one employee among hundreds, just at this one site."

Does this violate credit disclosure act or any other legislation? Did you EXPECT to get a high-pressure sales pitch when you called to report that your statement was incorrect or there was a charge you didn't make?

"To meet these goals, Colombo said she was told to turn every regular call from a customer into a sales call. She would do this by running the customer's name through the computer and finding out every possible line of credit they had ever obtained through MBNA.

She would then total the amount of credit outstanding and offer it to the customer as a blank check. MBNA was a bit lighter on disclosure details, such as telling customers that taking on more debt would reduce the borrower's credit score and thereby boost their outstanding interest rates.

"If we didn't attempt to max out, we were considered insubordinate," said Colombo."

"Consumer indebtedness is a major problem in the United States, one that is becoming worse amid a financial crisis that threatens the economy with a recession. Americans had $969.9 billion in outstanding credit card debt as of July, according to Federal Reserve data."

That is NOT good.

"Jerry Young, another MBNA rep, said he was asked to intensely target customers in such a way as to leave them little choice but to stretch their finances, to the company's profit.

Travis Plunkett, legislative director for the Consumer Federation of America, said the behavior continues at Bank of America but current employees are too frightened to speak out on the record.

"We can assure you that these same practices are being done up to the present at Bank of America," said Plunkett.

Colombo said another tactic employed by MBNA was to hide the existence of the Soldiers and Sailors Act, which gives spouses of troops on active military duty the right to a lower interest rate.

"We were not allowed to offer that information to them," the former service representative said."

Now THAT makes me feel REAL GOOD about modern bankers and financiers... really shows they care about people, rather than the money doesn't it? Take advantage of a widow or single parent that is trying to pay bills and run a home and raise kids and do everything while a spouse is off in Iraq or somewhere fighting under the banner of our flag. THAT's SWEET.

It's time to blow the lid off this control that banks and financial groups have taken on the world. Enough is enough already. PEOPLE, PLEASE pay off your cards and personal loans and get yourselves out of this crap. It's the only way to make it go away.

 

Probably my main problem with this thread. I have learned a few things from this thread and like eric I always like a good conspiracy theory.

 

Well I like them as far as entertainment. Ive learned a few cool things in this thread. Nothing that changes my personal beliefs, but a few that does adjust them and makes me smarter even if I dont agree with them. I got to see a different perspective. Bottom line for me is though Is you can invest however much you want in anything and that can be the reason you set the price for it be it to be perceived high or low. I absoloutely agree that may have been why prices rised or fell and I didnt consider that was part of the arguement. I also agree OPEC is a makeshift Monopoly and because of that mostly eliminates competition.

But to me you still have to buy that fuel according to how you feel about the value of it(Demand) versus the price. Also, and I havent heard this discussed by anyone else anywhere, but when a disaster happens and a gas station raises its prices effectively price gouging that appears to be supply and demand. People need fuel more than anything in a disaster and demand goes up driving up the prices. Its not right, but it just might be possibly Supply and Demand.


As price goes up people switch to fuel economy, which explains the new demand for used economy cars. There was one before but lately theres been more so. Anyway lets say the Volt thing takes off. Same situation but People over Speculate on Oil Prices go up but this time when people elimnate the fun driving stuff they just charge the car and buy even less. Now the Oil might even be sold at a loss which would likely be made up later anyway.

The Strange thing is there is a huge difference of opinon of what we have in terms of oil in the US. Some people believe that we could even self sustain on our own oil. Others believe we have very little at all. Between the two, my opinon is lets say we dont have much oil. Sounds like a good idea to me tap it, it will run dry quickly which would shore up even more support for alternative fuels.


Now this is where I differ from most conservatives. I do believe some US oil companies are not producing what they could be independent of the OPEC monopolies simply to have oil on tap. So if we do drill; my thought would be if x amount of fuel comes out, what ever normally at the end of refinement better hit the pumps, and it better not leave our borders.

I feel like Im barated by people, friends, coworkers, and media who disagree with me. That think their opinion is so much concrete fact because they feel that strongly and their perception of your inteligence hinges on how much you agree with them and there seems to be some of that in this thread. Thats not intelligence, thats judgement. People including me have mistaken the two. Since Ive learned that I was doing it I often try to point it out. To think someone has low intelligence or isnt smart because of their judgment is to underestimate them.

But youre right. it wasnt even leaning, it was biased passed off as independent and that really bothered me.

 

That's been my point all along.

Ruthless powermongers. Some persons don't want anything fancy in life, just enough to bring food to the table, a good education for their kids, maybe a nice Camaro as well ... but there are others who want to buy banks, control the media and heavily influence govt... and the population. If they control the most powerful country in the world, then they literally control the world.

Once the above 'infrastructure' is established, the public could then be taken for granted. It's your money they control... no matter where you look, where you shop, your money is going straight where it isn't exactly intended.

Thanks to the frequency of the wars, the illogical explanations (that is, my inability to comprehend the gibberish written in the media) of sharp increases in oil commodities and the pure one sidedness of the media itself, the various internet sources (Lindsay Williams' deserves notable mention here) I've decided to search for the truth from sources not immediately obvious. I've drawn my conclusions and I've been very proud to share this information with others. I'm also very thankful to ProudPony in particular for shedding more light on matters that have piqued my interest. I'm now much the wiser for this thread.

What I want is for the world to rally against this regime. I would hope that this regime is one day toppled.

Oh, I almost forgot another notable mention... thanks to 'Green Day' for their song, 'American Idiot'... there's some powerful words in the lyrics of that song and I can definitely relate those lyrics to discussions here!

 

Yes Im aware of the band. Was actually a fan and bought their CDs up until they becaome political in favor against what I believe. Im also aware that you feel people who dont subscibe to this are "sheeples".

https://www.camaroz28.com/forums/sho...&postcount=191

Do you have any idea how you come across? There are no hills in Annapolis MD such as your hillbilly crack. And while you consider people sheep who disagree with you, as vocal as I am in my opinions perspective and feedback on Camaro and GM on this board, it couldnt possibly be that Im just as vocal and call in radio shows that I listen to to provide my own perspective both on the air on National Radio shows and through talkbacks both in agreement and disagreement of the Hosts opinons. Those hosts know eachother and improve eachothers shows through shared ideas and feedback between eachother. Strangely after some feedback the have incorporated suggestions and rehtoric they liked even if its the smallest thing and listened but rightly dropped what they felt they didnt. I dont consider that sheep...

Seriously you can do what you want but, if you want to be considered seriously at all Id drop the constant insults...

 

Said the cartoonist...

I am serious about this thread but you offer nothing - nobody really cares about your radio talkback advice. You haven't yet answered some serious questions posed to you. All you do is disbelieve without providing constructive opinion/reason. You were asked how you would explain the spike in oil prices to which you haven't yet offered an explanation. How could it possibly be just supply and demand when the world is NOT running out of oil?

And Mr Eric Bryant is not always correct... despite his views that oil prices are driven by the laws of supply/demand and a degree of inelasticity, he has stated on this forum that oil is a scarce commodity but that comment was recently proven inaccurate - we are definitely not running out of oil. Again, why the surge in oil prices? Why did the US invade Iraq and switch the currency of Iraq's oil sales from Euro back to USD?

When you offer valid reasons for the above questions and others, you might actually be taken seriously... otherwise you're just ranting sweet nothings.