WOW! did you just accuse me of being ignorant and claim Left wing CNN was in the tank with big oil? I wouldnt repeat that one if I were you...

 

Ignorance is bliss. I'm glad you are happy with the way of the world. Good for you!

I just don't relate to your type very well, that's all. Enough of me wasting my time responding to your futility.

 

America was founded on the idea of limited govt to the extent George washington hesitated when he did anything when he was General of the Continental armies. The Government at that time didnt even have the power to tax, much less windfall profit tax. Infact there was a party in Boston that started this whole thing...

I wouldnt doubt that at all. It happens to be a huge part of a particular countries assets and economy that most people dont want to fail.

well if kooky is another word for socialist sure ...

Why is it that other people from other countries say who they would love to be in charge of OUR country rather than THEIR own country?


by "we" or "people" when refering to eye opening stuff, you mean everyone who doesnt agree with your conspiricy theories, but when you say educated you are refering to yourself, namely the 15 pages of attempted socialist indoctrination which the goal of which is to "educate" us...

No, it absoloutely does not. You can negotiate for it, but you are not, nor is anyone entitled(deserving).


Translation? knock it off pinky. Your Antisemitism is going to discredit my conspiricy theroies Campaining to make everyone else smarter until they agree enough to vote for a certain socialist we all know and love with me using words like "we can learn" Youre going to ruin everything...



Not everyone. Actually Eric might have mentioned supply and demand it in this thread, better than I have I might add...

Judging by that I think JP Morgan made a sound investment in oil. You seem to be saying because of the inflow of money and because the money belonged to JP Morgan the price people choose to pay out for their oil went up. Well if everything JP Morgan touched turned to Gold then I would invest in everything they touched. That is if I actually bought into such logic...

Truth be told, I m not to happy about liberal media bias.

 

To 5thgen69camaro, can you explain the demand shooting up through $100 a barrel all the way up to $147 and then dropping to about $100?

I am genuinely interested to understand how the demand grew so significantly to reach $147 a barrel, and then it dropped significantly to $100.

Can you provide an analysis of demand by different regions? Can you explain this demand, and why at present, the demand is not as high as 6 months ago?

Also, can you answer when oil is in higher demand - in the summer, because people drive more, or in the winter, because it's cold?

 

I would argue that the current price is actually below demand which is how such fluctation is even possible. If I had to Id pay 5-$10 a gallon restricting my driving to get to work so I dont loose my job. That is demand. So whatever takes place on the back end my personal demand is 60 miles round trip a day 5 days a week gaurenteed up until $10 a gallon. How that personal demand meshes with other people or the average person I dont know. At those prices, I probably would try to find an old Geo or something. Were that demand not there, regaurdless of what took place to get that oil to the pump it would sit there and not sell.

That is not to say I feel Oil companies owe me oil or I even like the high prices. I dont. Im also jelous of the profits any company makes when they are doing so well. Quite frankly Im jelous of somes abilitys to tune or build awesome cars, or Scott getting to drive Camaros, Z06's, ZR1s and have skunkworks intel on cool cars. There is not one person I mentioned that I am more jelous of than another. I wish I had that, but none of those people who earned what they have(all have much more than I have BTW) none of those people owe me any of it nor should I expect to tell them what they should give me something for.

When Katrina hit I believe Gas was somewhere around $2.35 or so a gallon. There was a run on the pumps which I was also guilty of temporarily driving up gas prices. I waited 3 cars out to pay about $3.15 due to immediate demand spike. About a month later the prices dropped back down. That is in my view a solid example of supply and demand.

 

Don't feel bad muckz. He hasn't addressed any of my points with any fact or conclusive discussion either. I pointed out why JP MOrgan might be biased and want us to believe that prices are not controlled by powerplayers, but he came back and defended them claiming they made a good investment in oil, and we are all just jealous we didn't do the same.
He also has accused me of being an anti-semitic socialist with conspiracy theories to sell, and used a "Pinky and the Brain" cartoon to mock my links to congressional findings and quotes from leading economists at Harvard, the World Bank, and the IMF.

5thgen69camaro, you were asked VERY specific questions, like "Can you explain the demand shooting up through $100 a barrel all the way up to $147 and then dropping to about $100?"
Your answer is "I would argue that the current price is actually below demand which is how such fluctation is even possible."?
You never said a word about "supply".
Are you not saying right there in your post that prices are not following demand? Your words - not mine.
Certainly we can agree that neither supply or demand is fluctuating as violently and severely as price, can't we? Indicating a discontinuity between the 3 entities for sure? So there simply MUST be another force acting on the relationships... like speculators and investors trading in futures, not actual assets maybe. I digress.


And while I am not crying or licking my wounds from your last post to me, I would really appreciate it if you would refrian on using words like Anti-semitic, socialist, and conspiracy theorist when describing my posts or my position. I am none of the above, and I think I do a pretty fair job of justifying my posts with neutral unbiased sources whenever possible. If anything, it appears that you have a McCarthyistic attitude towards anything that is not beneficial to the powerful players in the world, and you stand ready to throw racial or predjudistic slurs and propaganda towards anyone who actually sees the need to speak the truth or exposed someone for something done wrong.

While I beg you to please contribute to the threads dealing with our economic conditions here in the US - I will also ask that you please bring something substantive to the discussion and not throw racial or predjudicial slurs about for defensive posturing. I want to stimulate thought - not offend anyone.

 

More very unsettling news for those without Billions in the banking industry...

Last major investment banks change status

"The Federal Reserve said Sunday it had granted a request by the country's last two major investment banks — Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley — to change their status to bank holding companies.

The Fed announced that it had approved the request of the two investment banks. The change in status will allow them to create commercial banks that will be able to take deposits, bolstering the resources of both institutions."

I'm sure many are asking, "What will this hurt or why is it bad news for me?"

"The change of status means both companies will come under the direct regulation of the Federal Reserve, which regulates the nation's bank holding companies. The banking subsidiaries of the two institutions will face the stricter regulations that commercial banks are required to meet. Previously, the primary regulator for Goldman and Morgan Stanley was the Securities and Exchange Commission."

In short, they are now under the control of the Federal Reserve where they USED to be under the control of a governmentally controlled commission, headed by elected officials. We all know who controls the FedRes, right?

"The request for the change to bank holding companies was granted by a unanimous vote of the Fed's board of governors during a late Sunday meeting in Washington."
I can't imagine why a small group of the world's wealthiest would want to take control of the last 2 standing investment houses in the USA, ones that hold huge percentages of every major company and commodity traded on the markets, do you? And to not even have to wrestle control out of the hands of the people either... no vote, no review, no public input whatsoever, no consultation of the shareholders at the 2 companies themselves... nothing.. We simply allowed them to take over because of "fears" of failure and/or lack of knowledge.

AND THIS ONE JUST KILLS ME...
"Investors feared that the last remaining independent investment banks would not be able to survive in their current form. There had been speculation that both institutions would be acquired by commercial banks, whose ability to take deposits would give them a stable source of funding."
INVESTORS feared that huh?!?! Would those be the investors that are sitting on trillions of dollars worth of stocks and bonds that are defaulting? Or are these investors people like me, with a few hundred shares of a local company that is making parts or power for local consumption?
It seems more than peculiar that investors are the ones with all the fear, and the ones that are getting something done about the situation, but the taxpayers and the governmental agencies are getting less and less to say about what actually happens and who gets to pay for it in the end.

Regardless of your position, this move just took the last two largest investment holdings companies OUT of the jurisdiction of the voting public, and put them under the control of the private owners/operators controlling the Federal Reserve. This is not good IMO.
Now, "cooking the books" will take on a whole new meaning, as much of the reporting can all be held confidential and private.

 

I am not interested in your personal philosophy as to what you would do if the gas was at $5 - $10 per gallon.

I want you to provide analysis of global gasoline demand over the years to demonstrate that indeed the demand has increased proportionately with the cost of a barrel of oil.

I want you to demonstrate that the demand spiked to $147 per barrel, and that the demand dropped to $110 per barrel.

I want you to explain how the demand today rose up to nearly $130 per barrel and then dropped off to $110 per barrel by the day's end.

If you can demonstrate that demand can dictate all of the above fluctuations, you will have me in your camp that the price of oil is based on demand and supply.

Until you do so, just please don't bother regurgitating statements made by the oil companies themselves. We've seen them, we read them, we know them.

 

And yet, hurricanes have absolutely nothing to do with the world price of oil going to $100 per barrel, then to $147.

You keep resorting to local stories, which, I will state yet again, have no effect on long-term global supply of oil.

I mean, you went all out and stated that ProudPony is about anti-semitism, socialism, and other things... You proceeded to quote several posts by gasp not by Proud, but by SSbaby. He stated soemthing, yes, but not in the tone that I took it to be (you can see my reply in one of the quotes you did). SSbaby later qualified what he meant.

Let's take one definition of "anti-semitism":

Hostility toward Semites. Though Israelis and Palestinians are both semitic, the term almost always describes discrimination against Jews.

Here are a couple of definitions of "zionism":

Zionism - was a political movement, founded in the late nineteenth century by Theodor Herzl, aimed at fostering Jewish identity and nationalism. Its eventual goal was to found a Jewish homeland state in Palestine. Many Jews in **** Germany identified with the movement.

Jewish nationalism.

Thus, zionism is a subset of Semites. To be anti-zionist means opposing the jewish nationalism, and its nationalistic movement. This does not imply anti-semitism.

Unfortunately for you, I have seen your types all too many. Oppose something strongly, only never to provide support for your views. In fact, your points do not have any logical or factual backing, and they do absolutely nothing to support your assertions. You constantly evade answering questions or presenting data. Your flagrant condemnation and attempts to label something as "conspiracy" are only for the simple task of diverting people's attention away from something that potentially is truthful. It's perceived as a threat by certain circles, hence the choice to attack it.

I think it's generally understood by posters here that we moved away from any claim as to the identity of the royals/elites and their nationalities, and their goals. We simply state "bankers", "elites", and so on.

There can also be a big chapter on the Vatican and its influence on the world, yet, once again, this should be left out together with any zionist exposes, factual or not, for the simple purpose that it hijacks the thread and leads into non-productive debates, heated arguments, fights, and locked threads.

Back to the topic at hand. Are the prices of oil, which affects our beloved car industry, really the product of supply and demand? Or are there other factors manipulating the market? So far, the evidence seems to be pointing to the latter, especially considering the governmental ban against short-selling as well as talk about market "speculators".

What evidence can you, or anyone else for that matter, post to show that the oil market is a product of supply and demand?

 

never happened. I was refering to this post

https://www.camaroz28.com/forums/sho...&postcount=136

but also could be applied to this...

https://www.camaroz28.com/forums/sho...&postcount=135


No I didnt mention Supply. What I did mention was Hurricane Katrina. There was a HUGE surge of Demand that sent pricing soaring from $2.25-$3.15 or so. I dont know the specifics of what surge you are talking about. I know recently there was anticipation of this last hurricane that just hit Texas that caused price increases at the pump and that just went down a bit here. The News on Sirius said people were filling gas tanks and storing them in their garages. I think they it was the president that they quoted saying "This is not the way to act" I learned from Katrina and tried not to fill up. If this is the latest fluctation you were talking about, I would guess this is what caused the spike, or is part of.

Was not refering to your post, but that does clairify that this thread is about you. So Ill repost the post that it was refering to.

https://www.camaroz28.com/forums/sho...&postcount=136

None of your sources were unbiased but very few are. Youre position though is extreemly biased. All you have to do is look at your points which are very close to a certain canidate, your sudden concern for others to vote is its own interesting conspiricy. While its ok for you throw mcCarthyism at me and after SSBaby suggesting I was ignorant then outright saying it but you want me to watch what I say. It also explains that you think 17 pages into your blatant political campaigning for a particular canidate, where politics are banned, on a board you dont own , you are defining not only what is ok or not ok point out but who it is ok to offend...


I want prof of this. You made it up.

 

Nope I didnt say Proud posted that nor did I even suggest that post was attributed to proud. Didnt change the name of the poster. Didnt say it was his or even suggest it in my post.

 

Today's market fluctuations are all the evidence I need. These speculators are killing our country and most people don't care or somehow have deluded themselves into actually identifying with the top 1% ruling elite...so much so that they are willing to back them rather than the rest of us in the 99%.

They've got us right where they want us.

 

If people want proof that traders are manipulating the market to their advantage, read up on the article below and the practice of "short selling". And I like one of the (apt) posts from GMI in regards to how aggressive some traders can be.

 

I once didn't believe speculators had as much to do with the price of oil, but I do now.

5thgen69camaro, you are way too liberal in throwing out that Socialism word and yet I've noticed that you don't really lay out proof to back up alot of whay you say. Instead, it seems you resort to things that have little basis in fact.

You've made it very clear that you support oil companies charging whatever they can get for fuel all in the name of "Free Markets". But what is also apparent is that you have a gullible belief in that somehow profit driven corperations led executives with multimillion dollar paychecks and matching bonuses are far and away more trustworthy than even the slightest amount of government oversight and intervention, and should even have their taxes cut at a higher and steeper rate than ours.

A view of this nature means either that the person agreeing with it is a member of this exclusive 1% of the US population that holds well over 1/2 of the entire country's total wealth or this is the view of someone who has really lost their perspective and might be living an illusion.

We are about to hand over $700 billion because for years we had no government oversight of a segment of the financial industry. In case you need a yardstick to understand the gravity of this amount, this is more than what the Pentagon spends in an entire year. If I'm not mistaken, this is equal to more than half of the national budget in addition to the regular budget... in addition to the billion per week plus replacement and medical we're spending in Iraq. This is also in addition to the $600 billion+ we have spent this year so far bailing out various financial industries.

I believe you also think we need another tax cut. However, do you realize that all this money that we're dishing out is money that YOU are going to be paying back? If you still want a tax cut, guess where the money's going to come from... China..... and then you're not only going to pay them back, you're going to pay them back with intrest.

An alternative?

The Oil companies are making the largest profits made of any company or corperation in human history. Exxon makes so much profit they can BUY GM, Ford, and Chrysler at market value and still have vaults of cash left over. Either they need to pay more to help fund all this or you're going to.

Cutting earmarks will probably save you a couple billion, but we're going to be 11.3 Trillion dollars in debt once this package passes.

Anyone thinking that this amount simply can be done by cutting earmarks & social programs, or that huge tax cuts (especially for the wealthy) is going to miraculously stimulate the economy and we'll simply grow out of all this was probally whacked in the head with a bat while eating lead paint chips in a house under power lines as a kid, after coming into the world a few months early because mom believed in downing a quart of Southern Comfort to wash the taste of crack out of her mouth.

That's $11,300,000,000,000 debt.

There's 300,000,000 people in the US.

Your share of that is $37,666 if you count every human in the US.

Your share is something like $70,000 discounting those under 18, in college, or unable to work.

Somehow I don't believe if the government sent everyone a tax bill for this amount, you wouldn't have issue with someone making $20 million per year paying the same &0 grand you'd have to, and I'd think that multi hundred billion oil companies are raking in would start looking like a more than fair target, even to you.

 

I agree with you about the biased nature of news and media these days - no doubt. This topic was covered many pages ago and the media was identified as one of the agents used in the "dumbing-down" of the general public.
Wanna guess who owns NBC, CBS, and ABC? Let's pick on NBC to keep it short...
NBC is owned by General Electric, who is owned by... LINKY
Barclays Global Investors UK Holdings Ltd 381,990,017 / 3.84% / $10,195,313,553
STATE STREET CORPORATION 311,429,539 / 3.13% / $8,312,054,395
VANGUARD GROUP, INC. (THE) 309,613,503 / 3.11% / $8,263,584,395
Capital World Investors 234,465,455 / 2.36% / $6,257,882,993
Capital Research Global Investors 206,426,600 / 2.08% / $5,509,525,954
Bank of New York Mellon Corporation 158,910,986 / 1.60% / $4,241,334,216
NORTHERN TRUST CORPORATION 129,036,731 / 1.30% / $3,443,990,350
BANK OF AMERICA CORPORATION 114,676,949 / 1.15% / $3,060,727,768
AXA 103,420,961 / 1.04% / $2,760,305,449
WELLINGTON MANAGEMENT COMPANY, LLP 100,911,857 / 1.01% / $2,693,337,463

Will SOMEBODY please go back to post 169 in this thread and tell me who the top 10 holders are in Exxon-Mobil?
(psst - I already did! They are the ones in red above. Cool, huh? 6 of the top ten are the same in both companies.
Know what else, the top 3 are the same top 3 in order for Exxon too.
Did I mention that Barclays UK is into everything before somewhere?
SHOCKING. Simply shocking. )

Now see... I took something you said, agreed with it, and provided evidence as to WHY I agree with you - right here in this little post. It's really not difficult, and it does wonders for getting folks to understand why I agree with you on this point.

Now, to address the comment about this being "my thread" or how I have an agenda and how I have a campaign to get everyone to vote for "a candidate".

I don't feel this thread belongs to me in any way shape or form. I started it to discuss the huge profits that continuously pour in to big oil, but it turned into how huge profits roll into ANY business that is backed bythe right people - oil is simply one of them. All I have done is committed myself to answer any question or post directed at me. And as usual, I either justify my opinion, or simply provide links, articles, or facts to justify my position. That doens't mean I'm right, or bulletproof, but that I am where I am for some reasons. Surely nobody could think that a 15-year-old kid could have such a view about world policy and finance?!?! That alone shows that my position is one that has changed over the years, and continues to do so as I age and become wiser or presented with more evidence. I have invited you to persuade me to come into your camp too, and I am moveable, but random thoughts (though entertaining or thoughtful) are not typically sufficient to persuade me to abandon facts and evidence.

My points are "very close to a certain candidate"? And that means I am using this as a rallying point for his/her campaign?!?! Friend, if all I was trying to do was get people to vote for my candidate (of which I don't have one just yet BTW), I could certainly find a better place to spend countless hours of my time trying to win over MAYBE a dozen votes. Look at how many different people have participated in this thread, and how many are on one side or the other already. To think this thread is a campaign tactic for me to get my person elected is utterly ludicrous. And to further discredit your statement about me personally at some risk to myself - I probably own more firearms than you've ever held in your life. My collection spans from 1893 to current year/models. If you don't think that puts me in "the other camp", then your sadly mistaken. I am a registered independent, and I choose the best person for the mission ahead - PERIOD. I can clearly say that I am as "on the fence" as anybody. So I have enough ballz to put my position out in public for you and anyone else to scrutinize - just to show that I am NOT ere with any "agenda", other than to ask folks to THINK FOR THEMSELVES and LOOK AT THE FACTS.
What do you have to show us all, and what's your "agenda"?

I will be man enough to outright appologize for using the term "McCarthyistic" towards you. However, if you stand up and start screaming racial and predjudicial terms at others whether they deserve it or not, you should expect to be identified as one who does such. I recommend the terms be dropped completely, and that we try to keep the thread on-topic, with links to future policies and business practices that will affect our lives PROFOUNDLY in the next few years.


You want me to prove that I want you to contribute to the thread with good data and links?!?! Or you want me to prove that I want to stimulate people to think for themselves and draw their own conclusions about things based on facts and evidence available?!?!
Either way - you're right... I made it up.