I used the term Zionists as disctint from Jews because not all Jews are Zionists. My thinking is that its unfair to paint the whole race with the same brush.

Maybe, I should have used the word Semitic extremists... but it's only recently I learned the term Semitic also includes Asian/Arab/Jewish cultures.

To be honest, I don't know what word I could have used to accurately describe these people. All I 'know' from my research is that, Jews might not like other Jews, but they will continue to do business with each other, regardless. That is one very cohesive culture indeed, if accurate(?).

 

Cool, Kennedy assassination conspiracy theory #21478526. I'll have to add that one to the list of things I've already heard. On a quality scale, this one lands somewhere between J. Edgar Hoover and aliens.

 

Well, it was enough to cause a war once before.

 

There's plenty of well-referenced academic works about the power structure of global capitalism and how that affects politics, the media, and so on. Start with Noam Chomsky.

 

Quite right. And I always seem to forget to close off on my main points...

That is, I have no problem with who owns what... as long as there is peace for all! But these ruthless power-mongers I referred to, want nothing but a war with the Arabs. They want to terrorize the Arabs, grab their oil, and continue to live a greedy existence.

If they want a war with the Arabs so badly, why don't they just go in there themselves instead of getting the rest of the world (led by the US) to do their killings work for them? Not to mention the squillions the entities stand to make from the Ally Governments' collective participation on the war efforts (as discussed already).

And you know what effect war has on the price of oil every time the US decides to invade an Arab country? You guessed it, the price of oil goes up... and we once again complain about oil companies making squillions in profit... which invariably gets back to the thread topic!

As I keep iterating, you need an intimate knowledge of the underlying elements before you can understand why Oil Companies are allowed to make so much profit.

 

I'll have to put a penny's worth in on this at this point.

I specifically choose not to put racial demigraphics into this discussion only because it will kill people's appetites for more knowledge in an instant, and actually scare many away without further adieu. And that is something I definitely don't want to have happen.

muckz said above "There is a lot I agree with that has been discussed here, a lot I don't know about and am uncertain about, and there are things I outright disagree since they clearly cross into the paranoid conspiracy territory. "
Eric Bryant said above "Just checking in to state that I've been off the 'net for the last week, and that I have a lot of reading to catch up on in this thread over the next few days. There's some eye-opening stuff here..."

THESE ARE 2 INTELLIGENT GUYS. If THEY are paying attention with an open mind and get remotely motivated to research something said in this thread that may change their minds about the big picture (or maybe they uncover something that will change MY mind that I have not seen/read yet) then this entire discussion became priceless. (And yes, I am actually waiting and willing to learn something too.) They are smart enough to sort through some language and terminology that many would simply see and run away from.

Do I think that religion has a huge part in the world's goings-on? Oh you bet! It absolutely does, always has and always will as far as I'm concerned. But at this point, we can't even get all the sheeple to acknowledge the crime itself, so we have no chance of convincing them what the motivation for the crime is/was?!?! At this point, I think it would be wise to keep basic religious paradigms (be they valid or not) out of the discusiion - or at least take them to PMs or emails.

The main purpose for me at this point in the thread is simply to stimulate people to research what's going on for themselves. To understand how things going on behind closed doors are affecting everything from our kids' educations to the food on our table and yes - the car in our driveway(or at least what it costs us to own and operate it ). Don't be brainwashed by the magazines, newspapers, and TV. Certainly you should listen to what they have to say because they are at least giving you SOME of the info, but you should do your checking and be sure you have ALL of it before drawing your conclusion and moving on.

 

Proud - I felt compelled to chime in here. I think the scope of this conversation has moved a little beyond my expertise so I have nothing significant to add. There are several topics that have piqued my interests that I'm going to do some reading on.

I did want to extend an appreciation for all the contributions to one very thought provoking thread. Excuse my skepticism, but much of what has been said can easily be swept under the fanatical conspiracy theory rug. My cynical side tells me to believe nothing. However, I think the underlying concepts are not nearly as fanatical as they come across. The average American in private conversation would probably agree that large corporations hold far too much power; so I have to stop and ask myself what is the reason for the tendency to dismiss these assertions so quickly? Because it isn't spelt out for me on CNN? Can anyone be trusted, from any source?

In any case, for all those contributing, your words aren't totally falling on deaf ears.

 

My conclusion, based on what I observe in Canada, and my limited observation of the US through my friends that live there....

Canada especially is getting milked financially. Where the money is going, nobody knows publicly. From the city of Toronto which collects huge taxes, yet is always short on money for basic things as as public transportation, to the province, to the entire country. We pay a lot of taxes, everything here costs significantly more than in the US, ranging from cars and insurance, to groceries, fast food, and other things, save perhaps for the education and health care since it's government covered.

Someone truly has created Canada as a great cash cow, and we have squat for the money that we pay. Sure, we have the illusion of a great standard of living, and so on, but that's a pacifier to a bigger irritation.

Of course, bright people can start asking questions, and start digging and uncovering. Some attempt to do so. Others are not interested. Those who attempt, either uncover something, or are misled, or stop in their pursuits. If anything is published, it is quickly covered over with other nonsense. The media is extremely biased in whether it wants to exploit nothing and create something out of a mole hill, or whether it just ignores a huge discovery.

A good way to keep people from knowing what is happening and to ensure that they can continue to be milked, is keep them uneducated. Make education expensive, unaffordable. Make education sub-par. I fail to accept that elementary school education is the way it is because some bright people thought it's the best for our children, no.

More and more I see corporations having greater influence over everything that is happening in our society. They are propagating laws that ensure their own profitability by making consumers pay all sorts of taxes and fees, sometimes more than once for the same thing. I mean, any thinking individual can just constantly live in fury over that, but as someone here said, just join the system and try to beat it to your advantage.

The government is not interested in regulating certain industries, or is unable. Pepsi bottles Aquafina water here - it's using municipal water at the cost of 0.8˘ per liter (yes, that is one-eighth of a cent), and sell it back to consumers at $1.50 to $2.00. Municipal water, the infrastructure for which was paid by us, the taxpayers. That's a NICE profit. Nestle is now "forced" to pay fees on their usage of municipal water. Do you know how much the fees are? They are $3.71 per MILLION litres! This example illustrates well what is happening with many, many other industries and corporations. Governments are puppeteered, bribed often, or governments become ignorant. At the end, consumers are raped. And the trend continues, and is not getting any better. I wonder what sort of consumerist, corporate, greedy world it will become in the future, perhaps even in my generation. In fact, I'm sure great changes will happen in my lifetime.

All the kids growing up now are raised (by the school system, nonetheless) in such a way that they're blind to what is happening, and they're veiled from history. They don't ask questions, they're told what a great place this is to live (and it is, so far, but for how long?).

Are there powers behind the scene working on all of this? You bet. There are always powers behind the powerful and the wealthy and the influential. To deny this is to choose to live in ignorance. So far, I have not done the research to try to explain to myself which groups are governing what and for what purpose exactly, and the one thing I'm convinced of is that they're not benevolent altruists.

On the subject of religion... My goodness, I am a religious person, but let me tell you, religion is responsible for a lot, A LOT of atrocities and crimes in the history of mankind. It is also used as a tool to manipulate people. Al Qaeda and jihad... It really isn't because they are devout muslim believers... They use that to recruit people strictly for their own purposes. It's a political organization, not religious, but uses religion for recruitment. There are christian groups / religions who are just as guilty. World wars I and II, more recently Rwandan genocide, etc... The world is rife with examples of why this tool has been used in a colossal way over centuries and millenniums.

What's next? Someone will discover a way and implement it to use religion for an even greater purpose. Yes, I will throw some "fanatical" phrases such as NWO and UN, but yes, they do and will play a role.

It's rather very interesting on the one hand to observer and comprehend very loosely of what massive engineering humans are capable of. On the other hand, it starts to bother me that people are taken advantage of.

Phew, this is all for tonight

 

This is where you and I might disagree, to a point, PP...

Do I believe religion is the reason for wars (e.g. Christian vs Muslim vs Judaism)? No. Do I believe that religion is used as a vehicle to reach out to the masses to hide the real reasons for war? Yes, most certainly.

Invariably, the reason for war always relates back to topic of power and greed. It's never you or I that stand to benefit (what benefit was the Iraqi invasion to the Western World? - some of us actually thought we'd get cheaper fuel... but the opposite happened) it's the unruly and wealthy who always prosper.

IMO, religion doesn't pay you enough dollars!

 

Obviously it has NOT moved beyond your expertise - you made a great post.

The large corporations do indeed wield the biggest stick they've ever had in documented history. They are the modern-day "kings" and "emperors", making laws and policy that governs the people of any nation in which they operate. I don't think you'd have a hard time getting any person on the street to see that. But that is typically where the average person's desire to know comes to and end. They don't have the computational capacity to perceive that there are entities behind the big companies, and sometimes there are entities behind the first layer of entities.

And I agree with you 100% - I struggle almost daily with the question "Why don't people WANT to learn?!?!" In the rural area where I live, pregnancy in the 9th grade, dropping out of school to have babies or work in tobacco fields, and generally poor grades (even if they do stay in school) are commonplace. I see kids wanting to drop out the day they turn 16 (legally they can do it then in NC) to get a job at Burger King (if they work at all). You see kids in their mid 20's living at home like 14 year olds and the families are totally OK with it. I see as many grandparents raising kids as parents, and that is sad.

I am at a lack of words to explain it, and I'm sure there are lots of Ph.D's out there making it their life's work to understand it too. But here's my .02 on it... getting an education takes WORK. You have to put effort into it, it doesn't just "happen". One thing I see more as I get older is a lack of motivation and effort on the part of our population. Kids today lay on the couch, text their friends, play video games, and watch 220 channels on the sattelite. They are taught to be lazy. Every day after school, I used to go outside, get on my bike, and ride from house to house or to the local hangout looking for my buddies toplay with. We'd play football or basketball or ride bikes, or something physical for a few hours til our parents got home. We were forced to work in huge gardens. I had to split wood and bring it in the house for the woodstove... if my old man went to load the stove before bed and there was no firewood, I got a beating - simple as that. I had to mow our yard and wash their cars. I had to clean my bedroom, and vacuum the house for my mom (who worked). And I need not think of an allowance. Those chores were my rent... they paid for my room and board. So given the difference I see between my up-bringing and what I see the majority of kids today getting... I can understand why they don't want to dig into anything or actually read a few books. They'd rather play video games and wait for the movie. And we know the movie will be unbiased and historically acurate whe it does come out.

Having said that, one thing you have got to hand to the world's elite... they are not LAZY. They don't lay in bed all day and watch Oprah or Dr.Phil while eating Hagen-Daz and Pringles. Trying to become the first "Ruler of Earth" takes a lot of hard work.

So please - keep putting your thoughts in. I'm reading EVERY post... looking for a new perspective or something I didn't know too.

 

I agree that the corporations have a lot of power and that "big business" essentially runs the country and even the world. That is partly the nature of the global market we find ourselves in.

BUT, is that all bad? What other group of people would do a better job? How would things be different?

Before we condemn the way things are, we need to have a clear understanding of how they could be better and then you enlighten people and figure out how to get there. I certainly don't think things are great here, but they could be a lot worse. China is a perfect example of this.

 

You are correct. You know better than I that Canada has very close ties and a deep history with France and Great Britain both, and both of those nations were world-superpowers in the 14th through 17th centuries. Their royalty and their descendants are still some of the wealthiest families in the world. You should not wonder why, but be investigating why.

SPOT-ON. Know what? If someone looked through the windows of my home and then wrote a newspaper article on the furnishings in my home, I'd be livid. I'd do everything I could to protect my assets and privacy. I'm sure you would too. So why would we expect the world's wealthiest to be any different about their "business"? The big difference is that I don't think you and I are affecting millions of people's livlihoods when we make a decision to affect some global commodity like oil for our personal benefit.
That doesn't mean we should "respect" their privacy any more or less than our own, it means that we must TRY to find out why something is affecting us negatively, because they are not going to come out and say, "Gee, I'm sorry I need to take an additional 18% of your income this year in fuel costs, but I lost $2-trillion in mortgage defaults earlier this year and I simply can't have that, so I'm raising the price you pay for gas to make up for it. Sorry!"
You must go after the truth on your own.

Again I agree. The elite are privately schooled and they are etting the real truth. About the revolution, the civil war, the trade imbalance, etc. They must, because they are to inherit the systems and policies that are being implemented.
Meanwhile, the pawns of the chessboard only need to learn the basic principles of existence... reading, writing, and math. That is all that we need to know to serve those more powerful and knowledgeable than we. Just like a branch of the government, we are educated on a "need to know" basis. We know for sure that there are many things in history books that are inaccurately reported, but still taught. Now, the governments screen the material allowed to be taught in public schools... that's GOT to raise an eyebrow to anyone who considers knowledge virtuously.

Good post and observation. I recall reading where one economist/philosopher thinks that clean water will be the most valuable commodity on earth by the turn of the next century. Leaves you wondering where bottled water companies will be on the list by then if true, huh? And then... who owns/controls the water supply?

You win. You got it.
Now, all that I ask of you is that you pursue knowledge about this situation, and share what you can learn with others. (me included!) That's really the best we can do for now. You see, there is NO WAY folks like you and I can "beat" the world's elite when we are forced to spend all of our time and effort convincing our peers that there is even a problem. Once the majority of the underlings are all on the same page, THEN we can do something about it. ( good example of this is the Peasant's War of 1524-1526 in central Europe... good reading and good lessons about what happens when the nobility and rulers tried to take the people's land and tell them how to live and worship.)


If only we could reach the point where every human cared AS MUCH about their neighbor as themselves. We could then truly have a bit of heaven here on earth. A few pages back, I was accused of being "utopian"... well, I guess I am. I seem to be one of the few who is as concerned for people I don't even know as I am for myself. I was taught the Golden Rule as a young child, and it has become my life's mantra as I have aged. I find it is probably the best gage for my every activity in life, and I do indeed try to treat others as I would want to be treated myself.

BTW - I just had open house for my kid last night. She goes back Monday starting the 5th grade.
The teacher had 12 "stickeys" on the board that had things she was asking for for the class. I took 6 of them myself. 3" square post-it notes, printer paper (8.5x11 for the printers in their classroom), dry-erase markers, sanitizer, construction paper, and tape. I plan to bring gobs of each next Monday morning. We were in there for 45 minutes, and not a DAMN-SOUL took one of the other 6 stickys off the board... instead, they were all socializing.. standing around b1+ching about how the school bus routes have changed, school lunch prices have gone up, gas prices, and such. Oh yeah, and all of them were hot because the A/C unit in the mobile trailer couldn't keep the classroom cool. But no sweat... as soon as we were done, they all got in their $50k Suburbans and Superduty trucks and went to the steakhouse for dinner - some even asked my famly if we were going there too. All those people... fat, dumb, and happy.

Again, it's that "me" attitude. Funny thing that I will be the only parent out of of 25 kids in the class that will actually send some things the teacher asked for to help educate ALL the kids. I don't WANT a pat on the back, I don't WANT any recognition for it or anything like that... all I want is for SOMEONE ELSE TO CARE TOO, and actually DO SOMETHING instead of standing around b1+ching.

 

People in China are utterly thrilled to be Chinese. They are proud of who they are, they stick together, and they are very emotional and passionate people. I spent MANY months there in Shanghai and Kunshan.

Know why I think they are happy? They are basically "uneducated" - or maybe I should say they are "educated to be happy" That could be rephrased as "shielded from the truth". From the ones that grow up in grass shacks in rice paddies who are literally uneducated because there are no schools for them, to the ones that graduate from a higher university that educated them on what the government decided they should know. THey may have a M.D. or Ph.D. in engineering, and know all the formulas and theory behind the 2nd law of thermodynamocs, but they don't know what happened in Tiananmen Square in 1989. I know this for a fact because I asked Michelle Zhang - my secretary while in Kunshan - what she knew about it. She has a masters in language arts (studied engish) and business from the University of Suzhou. She knew nothing about it. It has been erased from all the archives in China, no history books have it, and it is forbidden to be taught in any school or university. I smuggled the CD "The Tank Man" into the country in a music CD case and showed it to Michelle one day after work on my laptop. She watched about 20 minutes of it and dismissed it as American Propaganda against China. She's been told that the USA is jealous of China and her resources and people - that is why we are all coming there to learn how to make things and live better - NO SH1+. She and a few others I showed it to simply did not believe it - despite the actual footage that was shown and testimonials by Chinese victims. It's a "Hollywood Film" that is as fictional as Superman, and they thought I was crazy for believing it too. Didn't even want a copy of it.

And she is just one of 1.5-billion that the Chinese Government has brainwashed into this mental state. What's their hope of truly finding out what the government is doing to them? What big business is doing to them?

Yan Sham-Shackleton
"Since you asked for a personal experience: in 1998, when I worked as a producer in China Internet Corporation, which is part owned by the Chinese government, I was specifically asked not to put "sensitive" information on the front pages of the site, as my editorial decisions got the site banned in China.

After that, I had to put in place a word-blocking system in ... chatrooms and message boards. I had to make a list of what was deemed undesirable as well as variations. So for example, anything to do with democracy, [the] Tiananmen massacre or, as it is remembered in Chinese, "6489" (June 4, 1989) was banned from being mentioned. ...

I tell this story because censoring the Internet is not just a technical project, there is a very human decision-making process within it as well. Technology doesn't censor, ... those in power do."

Similar conditions existed in the former USSR, but have become a little better in recent years due to the influx of western culture and the information age.

I personally think that education and conviction are the only way that the big picture will get better. Education in every form... formal as in schools and college, but also education as in human nature and fellowship. The latter of those two we are doing right now.

 

OK - time for something new to mull over...

Just got off the subject of China and their mass of people.
Anyone ever think about why we still have people starving in 3rd world countries or why we have no health care in those same places?

According to this web site, as of March 2008 - "For the sake of precision: due to the recent fuel and food price increase, the cost to feed a child per day is now 25 cents." This from an organization trying to help feed kids in 3rd world and developing countries.
So if a man had $1-billion to donate, that would be 4-billion meal/days. 4-billion kids for a single day or 600-million kids for a week. (How many people inhabitthe earth today again?)

Exxon could do that 40-times this year alone and still not lose money... not to mention Shell, BP, and the others if they'd help kick-in. What about other industries like WalMart, Toyota, Honda? Now what about the Rothschilds, the Rockefellers, the Carnegies, the Vanderbuilts? Not to mention governments that could pitch in a billion or so since they are 9-Trillion in debt already.
My point is, there is enough wealth and resources in the world to make this issue go away if they wanted to. And this has been going on forever... I raised money for Unicef when I was in gradeschool thinking I was making a difference and that someday it would go away. Well, not yet.

Don't you really think we could feed everyone going hungry?
Sort of makes you think that maybe someone doesn't WANT to feed them all, doesn't it?

Well, I'd like to share a statement with you folks and solicit your thoughts on it.

The power-hungry of the world are really not known for "sharing". They typically prefer to conquer new territory as opposed to giving it away.
Would it surprise you to find out that the most powerful and influential families in history are very concerned with the population of the earth?

Let's take the noble Prince Phillip for example.
He is the husband of Elizabeth II Queen of England. Baptized with the name of Philip Battenberg, he belongs to the House of Oldenburg. He is the great-great-grandson of Grand Master of the Asiatic Brethren, Karl Landgrave of Hesse-Kassel, and also descended from George II, Catherine the Great of Russia, and Frederick I King of Prussia.
He also founded the World Wildlife Fund - a conservancy for the protection of the world's wild animals - a noble gesture to be sure.
He wrote a book entitled "If I Were an Animal", copyrighted in the United Kingdom, published by Robin Clark Ltd.
In the forward to that book, he wrote, “If I were reincarnated, I would wish to be returned to Earth as a killer virus to lower human population levels.”
Well now. That's a bit harsh isn't it? It's pretty hard to take that quote out of context in any situation, don't you think?

(LINKS you say... Here you go. Take out the quotes and "+"-sign and it goes to 48,500 hits.)

Does THAT sound very humanitarian?!?! Would you now expect him - one of the elite - to give anything to help stop hunger in the world?
Long Live The Queen (and her killer-virus aspiring husband).

Here's a few more to whet your appetite...
Thomas Malthus - (he theorized the population problem and taught it to the elite and royalty in Europe in te 17th/18th century)
"We are bound in justice and honour formally to disdain the Right of the poor to support. To this end, I should propose a regulation to be made, declaring that no child born from any marriage taking place after the expiration of a year from the date of the law, and no illegitimate child born two years from the same date, should ever be entitled to parish assistance.... The infant is, comparatively speaking, of little value to society, as others will immediately supply its place.'' --Thomas Malthus, An Essay on the Principle of Population "

"All children who are born, beyond what would be required to keep up the population to a desired level, must necessarily perish, unless room be made for them by the death of grown persons.... Therefore ... we should facilitate, instead of foolishly and vainly endeavoring to impede, the operations of nature in producing this mortality; and if we dread the too frequent visitation of the horrid form of famine, we should sedulously encourage the other forms of destruction, which we compel nature to use. Instead of recommending cleanliness to the poor, we should encourage contrary habits. In our towns we should make the streets narrower, crowd more people into the houses, and court the return of the plague. In the country, we should build our villages near stagnant pools, and particularly encourage settlement in all marshy and unwholesome situations. But above all we should reprobate specific remedies for ravaging diseases; and restrain those benevolent, but much mistaken men, who have thought they are doing a service to mankind by protecting schemes for the total extirpation of particular disorders.'' --Malthus, ibid. "
Remember, this was being taught to the royalty and elite in the 1600's by a professor in the private universities... that should be sobering.


Bertrand Russel -
"I have already spoken of the population problem, but a few words must be added about its political aspect. .... It will be impossible to feel that the world is in a satisfactory state until there is a certain degree of equality, and a certain acquiescence everywhere in the power of the World Government, and this will not be possible until the poorer nations of the world have become ... more or less stationary in population. The conclusion to which we are driven by the facts that we have been considering is that, while great wars cannot be avoided until there is a World Government, a World Government cannot be stable until every important country has nearly stationary population." --Bertrand Russell, ibid

Prince Phillip (again) -
"You cannot keep a bigger flock of sheep than you are capable of feeding. In other words conservation may involve culling in order to keep a balance between the relative numbers in each species within any particular habitat. I realize this is a very touchy subject, but the fact remains that mankind is part of the living world.... Every new acre brought into cultivation means another acre denied to wild species.'' --Prince Philip, Duke of Edinburgh, consort of Queen Elizabeth II of Great Britain

William Paddock -
"The Mexican population must be reduced by half. Seal the border and watch them scream.'' And, asked how this population reduction would be accomplished, the speaker replied: ``By the usual means: famine, war, and pestilence.'' --William Paddock, State Department consultant, 1975 interview

Robert McNamara -
"Overpopulation and rapid demographic growth of Mexico is already today one of the major threats to the national security of the United States.'' Unless the U.S.-Mexico border is sealed, ``we will be up to our necks in Mexicans for whom we cannot find jobs.'' --Robert McNamara, then-World Bank president, March 19, 1982
"...|There are only two possible ways in which a world of 10 billion people can be averted. Either the current birth rates must come down more quickly. Or the current death rates must go up. There is no other way. There are, of course, many ways in which the death rates can go up. In a thermonuclear age, war can accomplish it very quickly and decisively. Famine and disease are nature's ancient checks on population growth, and neither one has disappeared from the scene.... "To put it simply: Excessive population growth is the greatest single obstacle to the economic and social advancement of most of the societies in the developing world.'' --Robert McNamara, Oct. 2, 1979



I apologize to anyone who finds this offensive in any way. My intent is not to offend, but to enlighten. To those of us who "just don't understand why there seems to always be someone starving somewhere in Ethiopia or India"... here's your answer. It's really THAT simple... if not shameful.

PLEASE - DON'T IGNORE IT OR ACT LIKE IT'S NOT HAPPENING.
Understand, and take a stance. Talk. Share. Do.

PS - did you notice any of the organizations and people referenced above that could be also linked into the discussion of oil and financing? Not coincidental.

 

Appreciate the endorsement. There is quite a bit to read through here, I'll have to dust off a few cobwebs for a real response a bit later.