Now, where did I say that, Bob?? I never said it should keep jobs it no longer needed. What I merely said was that the LA Times has been called out previously regarding bashing domestic nameplates, and goes and throws the good ol' "all the top 10 cars sold in America are built here" in order to justify its statements. I just think its funny any time they choose to print something about cars, its negative with respect to domestics. That's where my argument starts, and ends.

But hey, thanks for the interpretation And of course, working for Nissan, how could I expect you to see what I was referring to, let alone agree? By the way, you might want to take note that I did agree with the original premise of the article...that foreign exchange has nothing to do with their issues. I was merely commenting on the source, not so much on the issue at hand.

 

Point taken…I may have misunderstood the reason behind your specific comments but my intent was to respond not as much to you as to the comments made many in previous threads that tend to deride the foreign nameplate plants for not employing as many people as their Detroit counterparts as if to say there is some evil intent behind it.

My main goal was to point out that it has far more to do with the age of the plants relative to each other (keep in mind that the oldest foreign owed plant in the U.S. is only about 25 years old) and foreign manufacturers, especially Asian manufacturers tend to use more efficient processes than Detroit has in the past.

As Detroit retrofits its existing plants and builds new, modern plants; that “gap” will start to disappear quickly; in fact, the annual surveys have already started to bear that out.

 

"As Detroit retrofits its existing plants and builds new, modern plants; that “gap” will start to disappear quickly; in fact, the annual surveys have already started to bear that out."-Robert Nashville

The good news with this statement is that the competition becomes even more fierce between auto manufactures and we as consumers benefit with a much improved product from all brands.

 

Robert commented...
"especially Asian manufacturers tend to use more efficient processes than Detroit has in the past."
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I've installed much automation in the NEW big-3 plants (ie... LGR). Body shop labor... not many humans there. Many robots. Developed large part bin picking from shipping racks by robots in 1995 (none @ toyota and honda @ that time.) I've been called into Canada to straighten out complete bodyshop automation systems design by the Japanese. They ran very bad. Some of the worst robot integration - programming, bad welding, and material handling automation I have ever seen. Alot of Mechanical breakage, no control flexibility, no part buffer between major sub assembly processes, no robot program multi-tasking, etc. Those (automation design) people were in total denial.

Yes,the Union is a big problem. Their work rules suck. They always argue about who's work it is. I've been there as an Engineer and experienced the frustration and loss of life-time. The big three must automate the GA process (the transplants are starting to do it). The Union will not let them automate GA due to loss of membership. Bid-3 Body and Paint are automated.

Your correct... Perception rules in sales.
But then, I love to pull next to transplant buyers with 800hp @ the flywheel.
And, the LA times has no kred @ all.

 

Just for the record, my statement you quote above was not talking specifically about automation (not that I was excluding it).

I was also addressing such things as plant flexibility such as being able to produce multiple vehicles on totally different platforms within the same manufacturing facility and being able to increase/decrease unit production among those varioius vehicles very quickly without the need to lay people off or cause huge disruptions in output. That tends to make the overall plant much more efficient in terms of man-hours per vehicle produced (which of course bears directly on cost per unit and profitability).

 

And that problem can only be fixed with the Unions being with the U.S. auto companies and not against them on so many things.
I am all for the people working hard and getting a fair wage but the fight they are putting up to them is taking it to the point where you win and you dont work??
One big migrain import companies do not need to deal with. And I think that is a huge profit machine right there. Where it is a drain on profits for U.S. companies. And putting a stop to it would be a huge solution. Just try telling that to union guys that think the way they do...not going to happen..till something breaks..

 

and a side note, the post about machinery that mzgp5x works on is not the best and fouls up once and again.
Few topics ago it was noted that import car companies were having quality issues with cars built in the U.S.
Just throwing these two together...

 

I'm talkin about new (or running change) vehicle launch. Not just once in a while failure. There are hundreds of failures @ the same time @ start-up and, start of production (with metal). A new body shop system will have anywhere from 500 to 1000 robots and many PLC controll cells/ interface. This machinery consists of systems of mechanical components that must work without failure. One fails, the production line will stop. Other down stream production lines will stop. There usually are bad designs (high failure) from various vendors who supply mechanical and software components. Every thing is cost driven (by the bean counters) and system relibility is not there. You get what you pay for.

What the Japanese do well is learn from past mistakes. Make small changes to improve productivity and automation reliability.

It is more difficult to do model change on the fly (produce old model while tooling exiting machinery for new model). There are alot of human losses and much stress working with the Union (non-experienced jobs bank people). It is not a pretty site. Since most big-3 plants are old, running changes will be the norm.

The low hanging fruit for the big-3 is GA (general assmbly). Most of it (99%) is manual labor assembly. They must automate GA, and that will be a Union fight. The Japanese are doing this @ some of their new South truck plants.

 

Good lord, I wish they would just go bankrupt already! They are working for the enemy.........period!