I've got an idea for a Firebird/GTO relationship.

Holden wants a Torana, but doesn't have the money to do it, right? Why not have Pontiac help out with the "Beta" platform, or whatever they want to call it. Make sure it's AWD/RWD. Make it 2+2. Give it an Ecotec for a base, and a HFV6 for the top end. Put some decent options on it, call it Firebird.

Then put the GTO on a larger version of the "Mustang Competitor" chassis, with the LS2 or whatever as the base, and the LQ9 as the GXP. Take the GTO after the higher-end cars (and Chrysler's "Challenger", should they get one), and leave the Camaro to fish for the Challenger and the 'Stang.

That works for me; two totally different cars, two totally different markets (theoretically).

 

Apparently, seeing how much more of the F-Body budget it apparently ate up.

 

I was thinking it would be a limited edition halo car, although this wasnt my first idea for a return of the firebird.

My first idea that i had a month or so ago, but it would be more expensive and would possibbly negate a GTO. My first idea was to do something similar to the 350z/g35. have the firebird be a shortened version of the same platform and cut out 2 sears to make it only a 2 seater. Have the Camaro be the longer 2+2 version. although the camaro would obviously not be as luxurious. That would also help to get rid of overlap as even though they are the same basic chassis theyd be different cars. I think if they were to do this, they would have to come with the same engine options, but have the firebird also have more luxurious options (but still make it possible for a stripperish version

 

that would work in not overlapping with the Camaro, but then again with the Solstice, how many 2 seateres does Pontiac need? i don't thin the business case would be strong for a car that is basically a bigger Solstice.

 

It's still just too hard to reason out a Firebord... especially without a 1st cousin Camaro.

 

Torana is deader than a doornail. Ain't gonna happen.

As for the GTO/Firebird, I think 1st of all, any Solstice coupe (now a certainty) kills the prospect of a Firebird.

Secondly, GM and Pontiac are commited to a new generation GTO. It's just a question as to what the new GTO will be based on. It was going to grow in size on the Zeta. Now both Pontiac and Holden want to get in on Camaro. There hasn't been any approval on the Pontiac or Holden coupes to date.

On a more positive note, Holden's next-gen VE wagon seems to finaly be a go.

 

And is testing in the US.

 

so explains that fuel cap higher than the VZ's for the apparent fuel tank relocation to satisfy NA requirements. This must be NA's influence through Holden to design VE for the NA market before pulling the original Zeta off the shelf. Maybe that's why the wagon looks a little odd from the pics. I remember the wagon does not look all that bad in real life. Quite a number of salesman use them, rather than the ute.

 

Wait a minute, if Pontiac and GM want the new GTO to be on the same platform as Camaro, what's the difference in that compared to having Firebird on the Camaro platform? Isn't it going to be the same thing as when Firebird and Camaro were F-body twins? Now instead of Firebird and Camaro being built on the same platform, it will now be GTO and Camaro? Where's the business case for that, wouldn't it pretty be much the same as for Firebird?

Now I know GTO is more upscale, and by staying with GTO instead of Firebird might be able to shed some of Pontiac's "boy racer" image, but come on. I just don't see the difference. Anyone care to enlighten me?

 

Why WOULD pontiac want to shed it's boy racer image? Have you seen the GXP? The Scoops on the GTO? It doesn't look like they're trying very hard. GTO on a different platform taking Firebird's place is bad enough, but I'd be pretty upset to see a GTO twin of Camaro. It just seems....wrong.

 

Well considering Lutz has said that GM wants to change Pontiac into the American BMW and move it more upscale, I would think losing the boy racer image is a must. Not necessarily saying I agree with that, I think Pontiac can be a performance division with good styling and good interior, without resorting to trying to be like some other company.

 

Now that you mention it, I remember reading about the BMW target...it just seems that Pontiac has already abandoned that goal. Nobody is out there cross shopping Grand Prix's and 5 Series...or even 3 series for that matter. Cross shopping an M3/M5 and a GTO...maybe. I guess that makes the cry for more RWD pontiacs even more urgent then. How can you hope to fight BMW with FWD cars?

It's just dreaming, but I can see a sleek, upscale high quality and high performance firebird being the Halo car for Pontiac without carrying the Burt Reynolds stigma that people here seem to think it carries.

 

As I often wonder, why can't Pontiac just be Pontiac? They certainly not going to make a good BMW competitor, so why bother.

 

Would it increase the prospect for a Firebird if the Solstice numbers aren't what they would like, and a new Camaro is a BIG success????

 

Good question. I remember when Daimler bought Chrysler. The germans thought they would just " move upscale" with the entire line. So they dumped Plymouth and nearly lost the whole deal trying. Now GM want to try the same trick.

Riddle me this GM. How many Pontiacs are on the road today and how many BMWs?