Just throwing this out there, been reading that if enough interest in the supercar that DCX would bring it to market..okay so its just speculation and hearsay right now..but you know DCX..cough cough ....viper...
so if it is a go, and it seams like it might be..THIS IS A SUPERCAR..and takes time to build..say 2 yrs...the least..okay now GM cant build a daily driver Camaro in that time off any platform?? HELLO?? something is messed up here..

and to boot..how long have we known about the Solstice? and the Ford GT..and what one is on the street?? 150K car vs. a 20K car????

Im just wondering...will it happen again..its just taking to long for cars to come down the pipe...hurry up with the Cobalt SS already. it should of been out at the start...

after that Buick crap with the restyle and the cost..you think Lutz is now just a figurehead at GM and has no power to actually change anything??

 

If you really want to get technical about the whole thing, you can also say the current new Mustang got it's beginings at roughly the same time or somewhat after the next F-body did, and still made it to market 2-3 years before the F-body (1st inception to showroom).

 

A) It is probably EASIER to develop a supercar quickly, because they can charge whatever the hell they want for it (we'll see how many takers there are at a half a million each).

B) guionM, Do you really think GM has been working on a Camaro replacement since the end of the last F-Body? What makes you say the '05 Mustang got its start AFTER a new F-body? I tend to disagree. The new Mustang started from a (heavily modified) Lincoln LS platform, from what I've seen and read. IF a new Camaro (or whatever they call it) comes out, it is supposed to be on Zeta, right? According to all the experts around here, I think that is the latest intelligence. None of the Zeta cars are planned to be out or to have been out by '05...

Apples and oranges, guys...

 

The 5th gen Camaro was initially started in the late 90s off of the Sigma platform, as has been acknowledged by at least 3 people on this site who were involved or were aware of it (one publically lately, and one back at the time). This was stopped dead in it's tracks after it was somewhat along.

This was about the same time Jac Nasser's Ford was envisioning the next Mustang as a DEW based ponycar with Lincoln's 3.9 V8 and alot of electronic & navigational do-dads.

During the F-body's gestion, GM briefly studied basing the car off Corvette's Y body. GM also looked at basing the Camaro off the V-chassis.

The 5th gen F-body's inception occured in the late 90s. It's that GM spent alot of time trying to find a chassis to base the car on (as Chevrolet's former general manager once famously let slip out).

The Zeta program provided the platform, the components, and the assembly line to finally make it all happen.

 

Who cares? Its a supercar! GM doesnt have millions to blow on a super car like Ford did, and now like DCX does. Look at Ford and DCX's product?
GM has too many divisions with too many cars loaded into the clip for each, and to satisfy a group of people that may or may not buy the car because they feel that GM has left them behind, isnt GM's top priority.

Half of you have given up on the Camaro, and the other half dont give a damn either way...why should GM even waste its time? You wana know why Ford's Mustang is like it is today? Because of its fan base. They were on Fords rear end till the day it hit the car show.
If this site is an example of GM's most loyal die hard Camaro fans....I can see why GM might second guess making a new Camaro.

 

super cars are hand built. you don't need as many contracts to build one. and since the contracts that are made are made over a small number, they don't get alot of attention. if your building 200 supercars you have say 800 tires. most likely they would contact someone like goodyear and be like, "what do you have that can work with this car?" they will say what they got and the price. there wouldn't be as much haggling as there would 30,000 cars (or 120,000 tires)

 

Yeah, but the Mustang didn't skip a model year. The 4th gen ended in with the MY 2002's and the 2005's are not hitting the streets. ALSO, there's no clear sign in the future of it returning in any short period of time if it does. With the rumors out there, the original 2007 date we were hoping for has been pushed back to 2008/2009.

Be realistic Al, I love the Camaro but there's going to be at least a 7 year gap before the 5th gen comes out. 7 years is a long time for the fan base to lose its enthusiasm. Once we get some piece of news around 2008 or so we'll probably get excited once again about the car. Until then, I think we have every right to be pissed about a 7 year gap.

 

Why did they scrap a 5th gen based off of the said chassis's?

 

whoa...who saidk 2008 2009? Last time I checked, zeta coupe will be here MY07.

As for not making it on thoes 3 chassis..

Sigma is Caddy only, which is fine because they need there own chassis.
A Y body or Corvette based Camaro....yeah ok
A VY/Z body...well, thats the GTO everyone loves to hate around here, so I guess that would go over like a fart in church.

 

GM had 25% of North American automotive market share last month. GM's been OWNED by many competitors for decades!

 

Its been said many times Al,

Loyalty is a two way street. The enthusiasts arent enough to keep the car going, and Chevy stopped trying to sell these cars to the masses before they were even axed.

Why should they even build one?
See Mustang. See its hype. See how much showroom traffic it builds. See how many they are going to sell.

 

GM. FoMoCo. DCX. Honda. Toyota. Nissan. Mitsubishi. Hyundai. Those are 8 of the major players. For one company to own 26 to 29% of the total market is pretty impressive in my book. It may look bad compared to 40 years ago, when GM had 50% and Ford and Chrysler pretty much split the rest, but with the influx of other industrial companies (aka Japan, and now the Korean makes) and the resulting competition, it was basically inevitable that the market share would shrink.

Some of you guys still love to bitch about "GM not having anything exciting in their lineup." I've said this before, and I'll say it again. In the 2001-2002 MY, what "exciting" cars did we have? That's right, the world class C5, and the F-body. That about summed it up. Now we've lost the F-cars, but we currently (or will in the very, very near future) have: C6, new C6 Z06, CTS-V, regular CTS (heck, pretty much the whole Caddy line-up), GTO, Ion RL, Cobalt SS, ~300 hp V8 Montes, Impalas, and GXP Grand Prixs, and so on...

The performance golden age is now, people (not talking just GM here). Yes, we've lost the F-cars, since no one bothered to buy them in the latter years, despite the obvious advantages over the Mustang. And yes, that leaves a hole in the 18-30 grand price range. However, the fact that our preferred type of car - V8, rwd coupe/conv - is missing, does not mean that no exciting cars are being made. The Cobalt SS is no substitute, of course, but it is in the price range (a little below, actually), and there are PLENTY of young people out there who are attracted to compact, four cylinder sporty cars with forced induction and good performance (and "tunability"). You guys make it sound like there is this HUGE, untapped market out there for V8, rwd performance coupes. Really? Where? If so, how come Ford is the only other player in that market? Even when the F-cars were here, how many of us bought them brand new? I bought mine used, and I know many people here did too. I'll try not to even get started on the GTO. It is amazing to me that for ~30 grand you can walk into a showroom and drive out with a 400 hp sports coupe, and everyone takes it for granted and bitches that it is not a T/A replacement. True, it is not an exact replacement, but you cannot tell me that is not a car to get excited about!! And what kind of pricetags were affixed to a loaded T/A WS6 or Camaro SS in 2000, 2001, 2002? Not much less than the vastly superior (as an overall car) and better-equipped GTO. Geez, with the LS2 and 400 hp, the GTO is starting to push toward ZR1 or non-Z06 C5 territory.

I'll buy that you guys (and I, as well) are mad about our specific vehicle being gone (though with incentives, you'll be able to get a GTO for Z28/Firebird/Mustang GT prices, when comparably equipped), but I cannot stomach the idea that there aren't any exciting vehicles from GM right now. Would I understand it if you bought a Mustang? Sure! You don't "owe" GM anything, nor do they owe us anything, when it comes down to it. Hell, I think the new Mustang kicks some ***, even though I'm not blown away by the performance. But in my personal situation, if I were looking for a new sporty car right now (NEW, not used), I'd be struggling very hard between a left-over '04 Goat for 24 grand or an '05 Goat (either of which outclasses the '05 Mustang)...

*sigh* Sorry for the rant, but the anti-GM whining on this board has gotten a little repetitive and old. I'm in the same shoes, I'm hoping for something to battle the Mustang, because that is fun stuff. I think if you were a person looking for a loaded up SS or WS6, the GTO is a perfectly reasonable (better, actually, in most ways) alternative. Especially with the LS2 on board. But it would be cool to see a car that doesn't "start and finish" in the low 30s (i.e. comes one way, fully loaded), which is something the Mustang offers and the GTO does not.

 

Joe,
yea its whinnig sure why?? yea GM has the CTS V the GTO the SSR the C6 vette. AWSOME vehicles and would love to wen them..if I made 70- 100K a year....whats in the sub 25K range for new or even year old cars?? nothing..
ohh the Cobalt SS and the Ion Red line...you kidding me?? sticker for these was 23K...for that Im walking voer to Ford and dropping it on a 2005 GT.. Dodge they got stuff dealer had an RT Magnum for 26K on the lot brand new..ok GTO yr old for 29 I just saw..okay why? when the new one is much better for 5K more?? no sence in getting it..would love it but no...

I used the DCX supercar example to point out that like Fords GT has been out in less time than the Solstice that was supposed to be out what this year?? and where is it?? the paper to product that Lutz was bragging about well I know I got one copy of automotive mag from almost 3 yrs ago now of the "new" solstice...

Im just talking about giving the masses something like in 1967..a comtetitor to Mustang...not GTO not Cobalt SS or Monte SS, those are notthe competition...

and the hiatus well we tried..we bitched and we moaned and so much that Red walked off cus of that and used the Z06 pics as an excuse....Red left cus he knows one thing I think we all figured out..."have faith" has pretty much lost all credibility...and thats all he could say without loosing fans or his job... he knows that hes hoping too that the bean counters aprove and someything positive will come down the line that WILL say Camaro...not just something that is in the works that could be shelved at any moment...like it could happen..and might be..


the cars been shelved since 2002 and the plant being torn down was supposed to be the flood gates opening of the new RWD performance from GM across the board...from what the insiders said we will know alot more when the plant is no more...HAVE WE???


NO

it is going on 2005 now...3 yrs have passes and in that time speculation, rumors and tossing back and forth on what platform it could be on has all but givin new meaning "keep faith"...keep faith that you havnt lost interest in a new RWD car..or just that GM wants us to keep the faith cus they got their collecteve heads so far up their a$$es that they cant figure out whats comming down the road...

ohh its the new 2007 ME412 supercar...

still no Camaro.2007 is here..and the 40th anniversary clock is ticking!!!!!

thats what Im bitching about..and will till someone FROM GM THAT HAS THE AUTHORITY TO SAY Red or his boss or Lutz..


"FANS OF THE CAMARO HERE IS YOUR ANSWER TO THE MUSTANG AND DCX 2 DOOR COUPE (another rumor almost into production challenger??)

I give you your 2007 Camaro Prototype...and it should be out now not next yr ...it should be out now to stop us the "faithful" from jumping ship and going with DC or Ford and locked into a fun car for what 5 years or so and dont want to part with it and then GM looks at it and goes we did it with the GTO and its was not a sellout (though markup I think killed it), now the new Chevy RWD coupe and its not selling why???

CUS YOUR "FAITHFUL" WENT TO WHERE THEY CAN FIND THE CARS THEY WANT...
my 1994 is going to be 11 yrs old..its a 4th gen! and its 11 yrs old..
been looking for something new. and nothing from GM except for the GTO really got me...that I could buy today..but I cant cus its a 33K car...so gotta look somewhere else...

Thats what I am talking about!

 

Yeah, in 2001 we had a lineup of crap with one saving grace for affordable performance, the Camaro.

Now we have a lineup of overpriced, supercharged crap under 30k, good cars over 40k and no saving grace. People keep bringing up how great the Monte SS, Impala SS and GXP are....please explain to me why these cars cost as much as the Caddilac CTS while providing less horsepower? The MSRPs are less than $1000 apart from the Monte/Impala SS and the CTS. Good job GM. A bunch of half assed attempts at a sporting car that are outclassed by competitors at a lower price aren't going to satisfy me, sorry. Why by a $22k Cobalt SS when you could get a faster SRT-4 for less, or a faster, AWD Subaru WRX for slightly more? The Ion Redline still has all of the problems that the regular Ion has, which is why no one is buying it. GTO is getting better but still has an identity crisis. They're trying to target BMW buyers who won't buy it because it's a Pontiac, and the Pontiac fans who would love a RWD V8 can't afford it's high MSRP. The 400hp is a nice bonus, but the looks, love 'em or hate 'em, aren't pushing these cars off the lots at $35k. And you have to figure, it's a good package in the car, so what's the sticking point? Why isn't it moving?

Caddy's and Vettes are great, but I'm not the kind of guy that can afford a Caddy or a Vette. GM used to try and cater to the everyman, and nowadays they seem more interested in whatever gives them the highest profit margin in the short term.

 

Thats a hole big enough to drive probably a quarter of a million Mustangs through...