If this happens, GM is not worth saving.
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,448
From: Irving, TX
I don't believe it will end with 34%. Just keep telling yourself it will stop there. As it said in the article "It could save money by taking the American worker out of the equation". Why stop at 34%?
I bought a 2007 Honda Odyssey that was assembled in the US. 75% of it was manufactured here. It is funny (sad) that you have to buy a foreign car to get on built in the US as someone else said.
I agree that this is a global economy. More that 50% of GM sales are foreign sales. That means more than 50% of GM's business relies on someone buying a foreign car.
My point is this. We the TAXPAYER are pumping billions of dollars into GM to keep them alive in order to help keep main street America employed. This sure as hell is not what is happening.
I bought a 2007 Honda Odyssey that was assembled in the US. 75% of it was manufactured here. It is funny (sad) that you have to buy a foreign car to get on built in the US as someone else said.
I agree that this is a global economy. More that 50% of GM sales are foreign sales. That means more than 50% of GM's business relies on someone buying a foreign car.
My point is this. We the TAXPAYER are pumping billions of dollars into GM to keep them alive in order to help keep main street America employed. This sure as hell is not what is happening.
67% of cars sold in the US by GM are made here. I am not sure why you have a foreign car to have it made here. Because that 67% number means nothing apparently.
Finally, would it make sense for the taxpayers to fund the company, then have it go bankrupt again because it was building cars in the US and losing money doing so?
And, funding GM and Chrysler is keeping people employed. While there have been some cuts, and likely to be more with the dealerships going away, there are many more jobs that would have been gone for a few months now if GM had gone under.
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,502
GM May Trim Imports ‘Substantially’ in UAW Talks
Standard union negotiation tactics, nothing to see here...
Standard union negotiation tactics, nothing to see here...
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Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 3,748
From: New England
It's because right now, selling out to China is passé. It's one thing for your neighbor to go out and buy a Toyota or Volkswagen...But for your favorite Red White and Blue car company to start sliding revenue to the biggest automotive ripoff artists in the world who are also one of the largest threats to our economy...that's when things get touchy.
Prejudices run deep, and they vary from political, geographical, racial, stylistic, and more. I see a lot of America's wealth going to China and it makes me very uneasy. Other countries like Canada, Australia, Mexico--we're partners in crime, really, blokes all after the same cause and none of them are really gunning to become a world super-power like China.
Prejudices run deep, and they vary from political, geographical, racial, stylistic, and more. I see a lot of America's wealth going to China and it makes me very uneasy. Other countries like Canada, Australia, Mexico--we're partners in crime, really, blokes all after the same cause and none of them are really gunning to become a world super-power like China.
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 142
From: Lansing, MI
I think you mean assembled here. How many of the parts come from other countries (Mexico, China etc...)
I bought my Odyssey because none of the big three could touch it in options and quality IMO. I was pleasantly surprised to find that 75% of it was manufactured here and ultimately assembled here. That is a statistic that many GM cars would probably find hard to match.
I bought my Odyssey because none of the big three could touch it in options and quality IMO. I was pleasantly surprised to find that 75% of it was manufactured here and ultimately assembled here. That is a statistic that many GM cars would probably find hard to match.
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,123
From: Melbourne, Australia
WAKE UP, PEOPLE!
Why do some of you folks have a blinkered view of life, the economy and cars?
How is GM different to another great American company, HP, for example? HP develops software in India and China, employs Indians and Chinese to improve its cost margins in preference to Westerners like me. Yes I have to compete with them in the market place, in my own country... probably because it's easier than to invest in education and improve the 'skills shortage' problem.
We are a global economy. No company is immune to costs pressures (except oil companies but that's another story). Companies will continue to find cost savings and the term "Made in China" is a mere formality.
Ford may be the bright hope for American automobile manufacturing, but how will Ford compete with the other car manufacturers when Chinese cars begin to grow in popularity, improve in quality and are cheaper to run? That's the future we face and I recall the same arguments about Japanese cars. If you can't remember the time of the cheap Japanese car, maybe the Korean car will strike a chord.
Why do some of you folks have a blinkered view of life, the economy and cars?
How is GM different to another great American company, HP, for example? HP develops software in India and China, employs Indians and Chinese to improve its cost margins in preference to Westerners like me. Yes I have to compete with them in the market place, in my own country... probably because it's easier than to invest in education and improve the 'skills shortage' problem.
We are a global economy. No company is immune to costs pressures (except oil companies but that's another story). Companies will continue to find cost savings and the term "Made in China" is a mere formality.
Ford may be the bright hope for American automobile manufacturing, but how will Ford compete with the other car manufacturers when Chinese cars begin to grow in popularity, improve in quality and are cheaper to run? That's the future we face and I recall the same arguments about Japanese cars. If you can't remember the time of the cheap Japanese car, maybe the Korean car will strike a chord.
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,123
From: Melbourne, Australia
Maybe these comment from Fritz add perspective...
Q. With so much US taxpayer support, why shouldn’t the government demand you reopen US plants and get US workers working again vs. non-US plants (i.e. Mexico)? (Wes Winn)
Wes, first of all the loan money we’ve received from the US government is in fact going toward our US operations. But the government also recognizes that we are a global company, and that it makes sense to build where we sell - and to use the profits from those local operations to boost production in those regions when market conditions demand it. We don’t only do business in the United States, we don’t only collect revenue in the United States, and for the long-term health of our business we need to continue to make business decisions based on business sense. That said, the percentage of our vehicles sold in the US that are also built in the US will remain virtually the same in the coming years as it is today. Our intention is to keep our US manufacturing capability in line with US market conditions - as the economy improves and the auto market returns to more normal levels, our manufacturing here in the US will keep pace.
http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/f...ou-away-79371/
Wes, first of all the loan money we’ve received from the US government is in fact going toward our US operations. But the government also recognizes that we are a global company, and that it makes sense to build where we sell - and to use the profits from those local operations to boost production in those regions when market conditions demand it. We don’t only do business in the United States, we don’t only collect revenue in the United States, and for the long-term health of our business we need to continue to make business decisions based on business sense. That said, the percentage of our vehicles sold in the US that are also built in the US will remain virtually the same in the coming years as it is today. Our intention is to keep our US manufacturing capability in line with US market conditions - as the economy improves and the auto market returns to more normal levels, our manufacturing here in the US will keep pace.
http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/f...ou-away-79371/
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 142
From: Lansing, MI
WAKE UP, PEOPLE!
Why do some of you folks have a blinkered view of life, the economy and cars?
How is GM different to another great American company, HP, for example? HP develops software in India and China, employs Indians and Chinese to improve its cost margins in preference to Westerners like me. Yes I have to compete with them in the market place, in my own country... probably because it's easier than to invest in education and improve the 'skills shortage' problem.
We are a global economy. No company is immune to costs pressures (except oil companies but that's another story). Companies will continue to find cost savings and the term "Made in China" is a mere formality.
Ford may be the bright hope for American automobile manufacturing, but how will Ford compete with the other car manufacturers when Chinese cars begin to grow in popularity, improve in quality and are cheaper to run? That's the future we face and I recall the same arguments about Japanese cars. If you can't remember the time of the cheap Japanese car, maybe the Korean car will strike a chord.
Why do some of you folks have a blinkered view of life, the economy and cars?
How is GM different to another great American company, HP, for example? HP develops software in India and China, employs Indians and Chinese to improve its cost margins in preference to Westerners like me. Yes I have to compete with them in the market place, in my own country... probably because it's easier than to invest in education and improve the 'skills shortage' problem.
We are a global economy. No company is immune to costs pressures (except oil companies but that's another story). Companies will continue to find cost savings and the term "Made in China" is a mere formality.
Ford may be the bright hope for American automobile manufacturing, but how will Ford compete with the other car manufacturers when Chinese cars begin to grow in popularity, improve in quality and are cheaper to run? That's the future we face and I recall the same arguments about Japanese cars. If you can't remember the time of the cheap Japanese car, maybe the Korean car will strike a chord.
The big three came to Washington and hung 3 million jobs over the head of our government. So our govt gives in and agrees to keep them alive with billions of taxpayers dollars. Money my children will have to pay back to China and others. Now that they got their money they are going to farm more work to foreign countries?!?!? I have about had it......
Chrysler has announced that as part of their bankruptcy, they are not going to repay their loan to the govt. WTF!!?! Not only that, they want more money from the taxpayer. You can bet the farm that GM is going to do the same thing. They will declare bankruptcy and get out of paying back the billions owed to us. Oh sure. 30 billion dollars is a drop in the bucket compared to the bank bailout. Who is going to notice it?
Last edited by embpic; May 15, 2009 at 09:06 PM.
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,123
From: Melbourne, Australia
Imagine if GM had've made moves around the same time that HP and other notable companies (IT, Finance industry etc...) began offshoring work... they wouldn't be begging for tax dollars to stay alive.
The auto industry in America has been the most faithful to American workers... until now. The other industries turned their backs on American workers and offshored work to India and China many moons ago... and are profitable for doing so.
Not hard to imagine that GM, Chrysler and Ford would have made billions in profits if they followed the same path as other industries. Price of loyalty? Maybe. But in a global and business context, a bad business decision not to offshore work a long time ago!
I'm keen to read your response this time!
The auto industry in America has been the most faithful to American workers... until now. The other industries turned their backs on American workers and offshored work to India and China many moons ago... and are profitable for doing so.
Not hard to imagine that GM, Chrysler and Ford would have made billions in profits if they followed the same path as other industries. Price of loyalty? Maybe. But in a global and business context, a bad business decision not to offshore work a long time ago!
I'm keen to read your response this time!
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 142
From: Lansing, MI
Imagine if GM had've made moves around the same time that HP and other notable companies (IT, Finance industry etc...) began offshoring work... they wouldn't be begging for tax dollars to stay alive.
The auto industry in America has been the most faithful to American workers... until now. The other industries turned their backs on American workers and offshored work to India and China many moons ago... and are profitable for doing so.
Not hard to imagine that GM, Chrysler and Ford would have made billions in profits if they followed the same path as other industries. Price of loyalty? Maybe. But in a global and business context, a bad business decision not to offshore work a long time ago!
I'm keen to read your response this time!
The auto industry in America has been the most faithful to American workers... until now. The other industries turned their backs on American workers and offshored work to India and China many moons ago... and are profitable for doing so.
Not hard to imagine that GM, Chrysler and Ford would have made billions in profits if they followed the same path as other industries. Price of loyalty? Maybe. But in a global and business context, a bad business decision not to offshore work a long time ago!
I'm keen to read your response this time!
Coulda, shoulda, woulda...
I don't think you are getting my point. I don't care what they could have done. I care about the fact that they got all this money from the taxpayers. Money that was given to keep more Americans employed. Now not only are they shipping more jobs overseas, they are using bankruptcy to get out of paying us back. Absolutely criminal in my eyes.
This is a pun on Wall Mart but it has some relevance here:
http://sendables.jibjab.com/originals/big_box_mart
Registered User
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 538
Coulda, shoulda, woulda...
I don't think you are getting my point. I don't care what they could have done. I care about the fact that they got all this money from the taxpayers. Money that was given to keep more Americans employed. Now not only are they shipping more jobs overseas, they are using bankruptcy to get out of paying us back. Absolutely criminal in my eyes.
This is a pun on Wall Mart but it has some relevance here:
http://sendables.jibjab.com/originals/big_box_mart
I don't think you are getting my point. I don't care what they could have done. I care about the fact that they got all this money from the taxpayers. Money that was given to keep more Americans employed. Now not only are they shipping more jobs overseas, they are using bankruptcy to get out of paying us back. Absolutely criminal in my eyes.
This is a pun on Wall Mart but it has some relevance here:
http://sendables.jibjab.com/originals/big_box_mart
American's are the criminals of our economic melt down, yet it's always someone else's fault but not certainly your own.
Feel the irony here, one buys a vehicle from a foreign company that employs 30k Americans just on the sole premise that it assembled here. Yet don't support companies that assemble, by a multiple factor, vehicles in the US and the companies are US based. These same companies have existed here for over a century that currently employ a factor of many times more Americans and have employed and provided a way of life for millions of Americans over the last 100 years. Still today the domestics assemble more vehicles on US soil than the foreign makes. Toyota in 2008 imported 45% of it's total North American sales from Asia, 1.5 million vehicles. Mind you this doesn't factor in units produced in Mexico or Canada. So the actual percentage and number imported into the US is higher yet. This has been going and increasing in total units for decades! Toyota gets a free pass on the fact they "assemble vehicles" here. Where was the concern then about keeping jobs here? So please continue to gloss over the real facts that support your falsely trumped up case "it's assembled here" and that's all that really matters. Millions of American's that have lost their jobs, or are in the process of losing their jobs really appreciate your continued support of foreign companies.
Last edited by Derek M; May 16, 2009 at 11:12 AM.
Registered User
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,174
From: MI
I don't buy any NEW cars in US. Only used with American brand nameplate and fix them. They run good! Also, there is a Buel in my future(made in America!). Det_3 are done here. Yes, worked in the Auto_Ind for years as a Salary Engineer, and, the majority of the UAW trades made more cash than I. Oh well... US people don't like the American nameplate. Sorry, "friends don't let friends buy Japanese or German brand nameplate." I do have a 97ss that's blown and injected! Porche owners don't like me. B.
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 142
From: Lansing, MI
Ohhh quit your grandstanding like you really care. Acting as such is so prevalent and popular in our society today. If you really really cared, you would have bought a vehicle manufactured in the US from a US based company.
American's are the criminals of our economic melt down, yet it's always someone else's fault but not certainly your own.
Feel the irony here, one buys a vehicle from a foreign company that employs 30k Americans just on the sole premise that it assembled here. Yet don't support companies that assemble, by a multiple factor, vehicles in the US and the companies are US based. These same companies have existed here for over a century that currently employ a factor of many times more Americans and have employed and provided a way of life for millions of Americans over the last 100 years. Still today the domestics assemble more vehicles on US soil than the foreign makes. Toyota in 2008 imported 45% of it's total North American sales from Asia, 1.5 million vehicles. Mind you this doesn't factor in units produced in Mexico or Canada. So the actual percentage and number imported into the US is higher yet. This has been going and increasing in total units for decades! Toyota gets a free pass on the fact they "assemble vehicles" here. Where was the concern then about keeping jobs here? So please continue to gloss over the real facts that support your falsely trumped up case "it's assembled here" and that's all that really matters. Millions of American's that have lost their jobs, or are in the process of losing their jobs really appreciate your continued support of foreign companies.
American's are the criminals of our economic melt down, yet it's always someone else's fault but not certainly your own.
Feel the irony here, one buys a vehicle from a foreign company that employs 30k Americans just on the sole premise that it assembled here. Yet don't support companies that assemble, by a multiple factor, vehicles in the US and the companies are US based. These same companies have existed here for over a century that currently employ a factor of many times more Americans and have employed and provided a way of life for millions of Americans over the last 100 years. Still today the domestics assemble more vehicles on US soil than the foreign makes. Toyota in 2008 imported 45% of it's total North American sales from Asia, 1.5 million vehicles. Mind you this doesn't factor in units produced in Mexico or Canada. So the actual percentage and number imported into the US is higher yet. This has been going and increasing in total units for decades! Toyota gets a free pass on the fact they "assemble vehicles" here. Where was the concern then about keeping jobs here? So please continue to gloss over the real facts that support your falsely trumped up case "it's assembled here" and that's all that really matters. Millions of American's that have lost their jobs, or are in the process of losing their jobs really appreciate your continued support of foreign companies.
As to my purchase of a foreign vehicle. I have always purchased American made vehicles. Mostly all GM with the exception of a couple of Fords. When I went car shopping for a minivan for my family I really wanted to buy American. However IMO none of them came close to the Odyssey. Was I supposed to buy a lesser vehicle for the same money? I don't think so. I did not buy it because it was assembled here. I bought it because it was a superior product. I only found out after I made my decision to buy it that it was assembled here. My in laws had the chevy venture and it was nothing but a headache for them. I have had my Honda for 1-1/2 years now and it has been a great car.
Isn't it ironic that GM's most profitable market is in China? As I said before, more than 50% of GM's sales are in foreign countries. That means GM's very existence relies on someone buying a foreign car. So who his the hypocrite telling me to 'Buy American'.
