You are absolutely right about the minivans, especially from GM. They basically gave up on them when you look at the competition.

But, if GM doesn't make moves like this, all they would have are lesser vehicles for the same money. GM is trying to stay competitive in the marketplace. GM will continue to build vehicles here that it can. GM is going to be looking at smaller vehicles for imports from China.

The taxpayer argument means nothing unless you want GM to be liquidated because they can't make decisions that would keep them competitive. I guess loaning them money, having the company be liquidated and no jobs saved is a good thing for you.

 

That is the last thing I want to happen. I have several family members that work for GM.

I believe that GM can be profitable manufacturing cars in the US. No doubt that the GM let the UAW run wild and drive up the cost of building cars. I used to shake my head when I saw my father in law get paid $60K for sitting at home. He was a skilled trade and they moved his job to Flint. He decided not to move and the UAW contract guaranteed him a full salary as long as he was a full time student. I love the guy but YGTBSM!

The taxpayer bailout is a hot button for me. I wanted GM to do it on their own (Bankruptcy etc..) GM said bankruptcy was certain death so the govt gave in and gave them the loans. Now it looks like they are going to file for bankruptcy anyways and will probably get out of paying the loans back (like Chrysler). I just feel like they stole from all of us and now they are going to send more jobs overseas.

 

To a very large extent, you are right. GM vehicles made outside the US won't change much. By the looks of things, GM is moving Canadian and mexican production numbers to Korea and China. GM truck production seems to be moving from Canada to the US and Mexico, which accounts for a huge number of vehicles. That number is offsent by the number of cars coming from across the Pacific.

Overall, from the point of US production, it's a wash.

If you're Canadian, or even Mexican, there is very real cause for concern.

 

My dad and sister-in-law both have Odysseys. I have borrowed both on various occasions to haul large amounts of people/stuff.

One is a 1999, and one is a 2000. I have also ridden briefly in a newer one -- 2006, I think, and it did not address most of my complaints. It's possible that my complaints have been resolved already by the newer models, but I know that the magazines have been heaping praise on the Odyssey since the '99s came out (at which point it stopped being that goofy wagon-van thing). They've certainly updated the interior, but that was never one of my complaints.

I hate them. Aside from being enormous inside (which is generally true of all modern minivans) and having a nice ride/handling balance, they are simply awful.

My biggest complaints:

The throttle tip-in makes it nearly impossible to drive smoothly.
The engine lacks low-end torque, which is a must for any large vehicle IMO.
The transmission takes WAY too long to downshift.
The seats are awful, and the further back you go, the worse they get.

Both the '99 and the 2000 have required unreasonably frequent repairs for stupid little stuff, and invariably the parts are only available at the dealer and only for big money. Example:

A while back, the 2000 was making an awful rubbing noise whenever you turned left with a decent amount of speed (i.e. when the suspension compresses). That sound was very much like when tires rub when turned to lock. It turned out that the strap that holds the battery down had broken and the battery was tipping over. The replacement part, as I recall, was nearly $100.

A few smaller complaints:

The latching mechanism on the second-row seats is a pain. Even moreso when putting the seats back in.

Removing the head restraints from the third row before you collapse it into the floor is a pain too. Most owners I've heard from remove them and never put them back on.

The cruise control calibration is annoying. With the cruise set at 45 on a hilly road, your speed will vary between 38 and 46, and when it gets down to 38, the damn thing will mash the gas and downshift to speed back up.

It's been a few months since I last drove one. I'm sure that if it were more recent, I'd have even more to complain about.

In summary, Odysseys suck and I don't understand what all of the hype is about.

/rant

 

BS. We supply to China, not USA but a German product. Filtration systems for Wind Turbines.

Now maybe there's a loophole in the law that if the product isn't or can't be mfg in China that they can import, that I don't know...

 

Funny. I guess that's your opinion which of course you are entitled to.

So far I have been very pleased with my Odyssey. I have the EX-L which is the navigation/entertainment(DVD for kids) setup. The only thing that has needed repair was the DVD player. It would play, but would not eject. That was fixed under warranty. The ride is very good. The fuel economy is also very good. My engine shuts off the rear bank of cylinders in cruise. I got 27 mpg on a trip to Mackinaw last summer. It also has lots of pep (244 HP). Floor it from a standstill and you will get wheel spin. My only complaint I had was the armrest seemed to be in a bad position. I got used to it so now even that isn't a problem.

I test drove the Caravan and the Venture. Neither were as nice as the Odyssey IMO. You hate Odysseys? Fine don't buy one.

 

Perhaps the difference is that HP doesn't throw "Mom & Apple Pie & buy American" commercials in our face.

Maybe it's because we (the U.S.) didn't give billions to HP so that it could move production to a country that would like nothing more than to destroy the U.S. politically (or with a nuclear warhead if necessary).

 

Other countries can supply parts, but the final product has to be assembled there.

 

This is VERY true. China considers the US a necessary evil. When they outgrow us things will get interesting.

 

I find threads like this very ironic. Considering the fact that this board is devoted to cars made in Canada, I fail to see why you're all deciding to freak out now because GM is deciding to make more cars abroad...

 

I am confused by this post.

The OP is basically saying GM is not worth saving if they import cars from China, yet he owns a Toyota and is extrmely proud of it?

I read a lot of thispost , but granted, not all, because I got bored reading about minivans, but this is a bit on the hypocritical side, no?

Or is this one of those situations where they get a pass because this particular Japanese vehcile is assembled in the United States?

 

There's a lot of ironies I see in this thread, from the OP (you can buy a Caravan built in Missouri, though I could not find the North American parts content) to SSbaby defending GM moving production to China even though he rails against Wall Street for "selling everyone out" and attempting to make profits as well....

Did they ever get the Odyssey transmission problems resolved?

 

Yeah... You need to read the thread. First off it is a Honda, not a Toyota. Not only is it assembled here, 75% of it is manufactured here. That is important IMO.

The main issue I have is that the 'Big 3' held 3 million jobs over our heads and was a major reason for the govt giving them the billions of dollars to stay in business. Now that they have the money they want to ship those jobs to China and elsewhere. To top it all off, they are getting out of repaying those loans through bankruptcy and have to nerve to ask for more.

 

Yes. They did a redesign of the transmission for the 2007 model year.

 

So, this applies then, I take it: