Well I am not under 30 wishing to get credit on a Camaro SS......
I think most will have to put 15-20% down when the Camaros comes out
if they have good credit....
Myself I knew there was not going to be a bailout for retooling untill many months from now....people really think the goverments going to give you 25 billion dollars when they know your stock is worth less then $6 a share???
Yep lets give the Airlines 50 billion dollars so we can keep them in business also,,,maybe the airlines will give Boing part of it for newer airlines that give better fuel consumpion....
Maybe its best just to invest the $30,000 in potash or US steel or visa or maybe mastercard and you will double your money within 2 years and you can buy a camaro that will cost you little or nothing.....
To me many people have little sense or none at alllllllll
Yep go spend that money that burning in your pockets......
Myself I have cash and really in no rush to buy a Camaro SS untill I sit in one...........
I am sure Money is not a problem for many of us,,,its the ones that complain that have no money

 

Will you please just shut up already? You have no idea what you are talking about, you can't spell, use proper grammer, or punctuation properly, and no one here cares what you think about us or the Camaro. You are obviously a troll with nothing better to do with his time than try to anger people on a messageboard. In reality, you are simply annoying.

Most people here probably have you on their block list already. I would, but I get such a laugh out of seeing what you post next that I just can't. It's like watching a guy get hit by a car. You know what's going to happen but you can't look away until you see just how bad it really is.

 

[CENSORED]

 

[deleted]

 

I think this thread title is starting to become a misnomer.

The article above implies Chrysler will die if GM doesn't 'save' it. If GM 'saves' Chrysler, thousands of jobs will go, regardless. The only certainty is that Cerberus wants out and if the article is true, Cerberus has effectively cut off investment on Chrysler's vehicle development beyond 2010.

Cerberus has effectively killed Chrysler, not GM (yet)!

 

As a Chrysler employee, I'm really hoping the GM deal falls thru and Renault-Nissan buys us. It will still be bad, but not as bad as GM taking us over.

 

What Chrysler needs to do is go off on its own. Cerberus needs to allow Chrysler to go solo and allow them to go to the US Govt like everyone else is right now and like they did in the early 80's and use what's left of the company and their $11B as collateral on a loan and deal that would cover their UAW, pension and healthcare liability and give them a shot in the arm. Then they need to downsize the company to just Jeep and non overlapping models of Dodge and Chrysler brands. Cut dealers and plants to meet production levels and put their eggs into a few baskets on future vehicles. If they are truly in a better position than GM and maybe Ford with the money they have and a generous govt. now is the time to control their own destiny. They may shrink down to a company 2/3 the size they are now and maybe w/o a full product lineup. But the goal is to right the ship and prevent going down and taking large numbers of employees and suppliers with them. Chrysler has always been the smaller and more nimble of the Detroit 3 and thus more apt to turn around the company in rougher times. This would be the ultimate test.

 

Now you're making me nervous.


I actually liked the guy at first, and exchanged e-mails with him pretty often at first. But then when holes and shortcoming were pointed out in his plan by others, he got pretty nasty.... this was even after he himself invited comments and feedback from others on the internet. After this went on for some time, got nastier and nastier, and he went from being a intriging contributer to turning even his supporters against him, he got banned from here. Scott Settlemire can take alot of criticism, but even he got fed up with the guy.

I agree that there is alot of points he made that seem to now be borne true. But his points about GM wasn't created out of insight. It was out of spite that they didn't pay him whatever millions he demanded for his 'Return To Greatness" plan.

I think the plan was overall a good marketing tool, and might have done alot of good in improving that area of GM. But the guy felt that product was insignificant & that a good motivated salesman could sell anything and that's what his plan emphasized. This position sounded alot like the OLD General Motors mentality. The same flawed mentality that is killing Buick today still.

 

Every point dead on, sir!

When Ford sold off Aston Martin and to a lesser extent, Jaguar, I was outraged. I felt that these brands helped Ford's image immensely. Aston Martin made a small profit, and Jaguar to a large degre was so entwined with Ford it was difficult to see where Ford parts ended and Jaguar began. However, Ford was doing this to gather funds for a a massive restructuring and a "Hail Mary" product onslaught that went so far as creating a new line of engines. My objections to Ford's sales were dropped because you could clearly see, understand, and even admire that Ford was putting it all on the line and was serious about reinventing itself and being devoted to the car business again.

Meanwhile at GM (and tell me if I miss something):

GM is:
selling off a division to raise cash.....

to buy another company to get their cash....

while giving up GMAC in the process, so they can...

gain less cash than they burned up during the 1st 4 months of this year, while...

laying off at least 60,000 people from this bought company, while....

apparently depending on government to give them money to make the deal happen....

while at the same time, the government will also need to pay out unemployment and other benefits to those 60,000 people who will lose their jobs over all this.... yet if... GM doesn't change the way it burns money...

GM is going to fold anyway.....

But will be too big to fail, and will need more government money to keep from wreaking the US economy.... as if it needed any more help than it already has...

...and dragging even more taxpayer money out of the government.


Isn't it just easier and simpler to drop a couple of divisions, end product overlap and badge engineering, institute a New-Ford/Old-Chrysler like management and product development system that greatly shortens the decision making & product development process, and engineer every car so that it can be quickly and easily adapted to sell in other areas in the world... coincidently including their home market, North America?

I'm sure it would save the taxpayers billions of dollars the country doesn't have, save 60,000 jobs of people that would rather work, save a company that has a history of being innovative to survive..... and, who knows, might even ensure the General Motors Corperation is around long enough that when the person who bought a 2010 Camaro and finished paying it off, can trade it in on another GM product.

Just the way I see it.

 

I can imagine that -- I've read Buickman's posts on other boards and he can be completely obnoxious and self-aggrandizing, and he could well be primarily motivated by a personal grudge.

However, it turns out that he was the 'voice in the wilderness' about GM's mismanagement. And like it or not, he's now the public face of the small GM shareholder who has lost their shirt, not just some internet nutter. When I saw Jim Dollinger staring at me from the cover of the WSJ, I was surprised too.

Not to go off into the "international banksters" rhelm, but I think there's an argument to be made that GM management has been more interested in extracting money and assets from the company than in selling cars. And when GM, Cerberus, and JP Morgon go into a room and cut a huge deal, the results are not going to be pretty for the small investor. I don't own any GM, but I'm glad someone is screaming about this.

 

And compare what GM has done with SAAB, Isuzu, Fuji, Suzuki and more recently, Opel and Holden... you'll note that Ford do a much better job of making synergies with other car makers work for them whereas the opposite is true for GM. GM can't manage all their brands, simple.

Chevrolet, Cadillac and possibly GMC is all that GM should retain. Forget Chrysler and the possible backlash that would probably result. Cerberus just wants GM to take the heat for them.

 

A few people in this thread need to either be more respectful to each other or stop posting here. This site is for grown ups.

Also, reporting a post doesn't mean it is okay to continue the problem that has been reported with replies, adding fuel to the fire.

 

I hope things work out well for you and Chrysler.

I'm not so sure about Renault... Goshn has the nickname of Carlos "the knife".

 

That is, quite simply, the best explaination I've yet read of the situation at hand Nicely done, sir!

 

Unfortunately, you can't downsize a company without losing jobs.

The "real" problem is this: NOTHING is really made in the USA anymore. I laugh at people who come on here and say "Buy an American car". The problem is companies/corporations started this wonderful trend of outsourcing American's jobs to other countries. When other companies/corporations looked at those companies' profit margins, they said to themselves, "Hey, we can do that too!" and jumped on the bandwagon. Unfortunately, when you pay someone in another country to make stuff, those employees aren't spending their money on American goods - they're spending it in their own countries, which continues to feed the downward spiral of downsizing and outsourcing American jobs.
So.....after years of paying Pedro 200 pesos/day in Mexico, this kind of behavior is coming back to bite us all in our south ends. Why? Because Pedro can't afford a $60k Escalade that gets 10mpg making 200 pesos/day in Mexico. Meanwhile, "American" auto companies are losing market share to Japanese auto companies who build their stuff here in the US, so now GM/Ford/Chrysler must downsize or hemmorhage money, putting more people on the unemployment line and continuing the downward spiral.
What's the solution to this problem? Hmmm.....how about stopping the outsourcing of American jobs so Americans can afford to buy American goods? That would be a good start. As far as American automakers is concerned, they need to start beating the Japanese/Europeans at their own game. They need to find a way to sell American cars in Japan. Leaving the 2nd largest automobile market mostly untapped is a mistake of epic proportions. Build automobiles exclusively in the US that are better than the competition, not just as good as the competition. Put money in American's pockets so they can afford to buy an American-made product that is better than the rest.
I'm not saying the "Big 3" started the mess of outsourcing our jobs, but they are on the bandwagon; now they're becoming victims of this behavior like the rest of this country.