Recent events have planted a seed of an idea for me...

Barrett-Jackson sales the past weekend showed GM (and most likely the other homegrown auto makers) have large inventories of previously built product of all ages just sitting around doing nothing but taking up space.

What if GM, Ford, and Chrysler built a "travelling circus" with products from each year beginning about 1970 or so?

In addition, those builders seek out similarly saved (or restored) products from their competitors.

If (and most likely) the early foreign cars have to be restored, have a group of judges make sure they are factory correct, just to be fair. (Think Bloomington Gold for Corvettes)

Take both the domestic museum and foreign products "on the road" and inform or teach the buying public of the "history" and the real truth. And if necessary, DARE the media to open their eyes and make the real comparisons.

With models in the very late 1980's-early 1990s, folks (including the Detroit folks) would begin to see things head in the foreigners favor and even that could open up some eyes on Detroit fanbase's eyes.

Let EVERYONE see the REAL TRUTH, good or bad, no matter which side you view it from.

The "travelling circus", it seems to me, would gather attention since most everyone gets nostalgic about "old cars".

Just an idea.

jms

 

Car and Driver is probably the least common offender on the anti-domestic bias issue. They're generally in love with Honda and BMW, but IMO they do give credit where credit is due.

When Consumer Reports publishes something similarly pro-domestic, I'll believe that things have changed.

 

I believe CR's method for gathering reliability data is inherently flawed.

They only survey their readers. To me this creates a form of a self-fulfilling prophecy.

If CR says Japanese cars are generally good and American cars are generally bad in reliability and CR readers have experiences that agree with that, they remain CR readers and continue to fill out surveys that agree with the existing data, causing future data to stay roughly the same. If their experience doesn't agree with CR they may stay CR readers for a while and continue to fill out surveys but eventually will swear off CR as a bad source for information and will stop filling out surveys.

It ensures that it's more quite a bit difficult for their survey results to change over time than a true scientific/random survey would allow for.

 

the idea is to forget the past not make people point and go "oh yea i remember my (insert 1980's POS here) and it left me stranded, what a hunk of junk"

unless it was a display showing "hey these were our crappy cars that you remember, now look at how much better we're doing now with these brand new shiny things over here" which still i'm not so sure would be the best promotional tool.

 

I agree. It's true that in the 70s many foreign cars were just as much crap as domestic cars, but pointing that out in a marketing plan is kinda awkward.

Here's the thing... in part of the 80s, pretty much all of the 90s, and the very early 00s... Honda and Toyota had Ford and GM soundly beat in overall car design, quality, materials, build, reliability, etc.

Pointing back to 1970 through 1984 or whatever isn't going to do much. Could they bring back a 1999 Malibu and put it next to a 1999 Accord or Camry and be proud? No. The comparison was horrible at that time. Same with 1995 or 1992 or 1988 or anywhere in between. There were exceptions but over the average the difference was overwhelming.

In addition to poor and frustrating reliability and quality people also had to deal with poor depreciation. You can't help but feel robbed when your 20k dollar domestic car, 5 years later, is worth half as much as if you had bought a 20k dollar import car. That's pure cash right down the tubes never to be seen again.

You just have to understand how people tend to remember things and be slow to forgive past transgressions. It's going to take many years, even a decade or more for some people for a lot of the general public to believe that these cars are for real. To be honest I'm not even 100% convinced because I haven't gotten to see a 150k mile 10 year old 07 Malibu or CTS yet... nobody has. Their initial quality and perceived quality is good but then again so is Audi's and everybody knows you don't want to own an Audi outside of warranty, especially in the 6-figure mileage range.

 

 

I owned a '64 Datsun B210- and my step-father bought a '78 Toyota, first non-US car he ever bought- after a '73 Gremlin, it was a step up in feel, amenities, and fuel mileage-

If you want classics, how about the Datsun 240 Z that came out in '73? Or an early '90's turbo Supra- Japan can build nice cars, too. I am glad in a way that they forced the Big 3 to take their game up a notch or two- too bad Detroit was so slow to respond- if you drove a 70's Pinto or Vega and a comparably price Toyota (Cressida?) there was a big difference in feel, performance, and value-

GM and Ford are now building world-class cars- they have to, to compete with Japan and Korea-

 

ECELLENT point.

They lost my cred with their confessions last year.
http://www.boston.com/business/globe...lity_improves/

"Consumer Reports said it previously recommended redesigned Toyota models even without enough reliability data "because of the automaker's excellent track record." The revamped vehicles now won't be considered until it accumulates sufficient data."

WTF?!?!

 

The idea that the foreign (more specificly Asian) cars have always had better quality and been better selling cars for several decades is fictitious.

That is why I proposed a direct comparison, year-to-year.

1976 Monte Carlo versus Ford T-bird vs Mopar (whatever fits), and then have the foreign offering (if there was one) right along side. Even a Maverick versus Nova versus Mopar (whatever) versus Honda Civic versus Toyota (whatever) and Datsun (whatever). I believe the domestics would win that contest.

Maybe skip a couple years but provide a display through the model years.

I believe (and sales numbers would probably verify) the domestics held a significant numbers advantage until the late 1980s-early 1990s.

Display those cars against the foreign competitors, model to model.

The point of the exercise would be to let the viewer see the domestics were not bested by the foreign competitors until the early to mid-1990s.

At least not in the margin some "remember".

I speak coming from a military family that has owned new Fords (from the early 1950s to 1976), GMs (from mid-70s to late 1990s), and Hondas (from 1994 to current).

Myself, I am almost 53 years old and have seen and driven most everything new my father purchased from the early 1970s on.

But, to compare his new 1994 Accord to a new vehicle is ridiculous. The '94 Honda Accord is very similar in size and quality to the 2005 Honda Civic he traded it in on a few months before he passed away in 2006.

I drove the '94 on an 1800 mile round-trip in 1996. About 35 mpg at 70 mph but not the most comfortable cruiser.

The 2003 Odyssey, still owned by my mother, is much more comfortable. But at 70 mph you are looking at 22-24 mpg.

By having a "travelling circus" or museum, people could see just how bare and small the older foreign cars were compared to the "junky" domestic cars.

And just maybe help to change their perception, because perception is based on what you remember (or were told), whether it was right or wrong.

jms

 

I think that JD Power is much better at this, since they use a random survey, IIRC.

 

Car & Driver generally publishes thoughtful, balanced commentary. They've always liked BMW and Honda, but that's because those two have made good cars. When they've screwed up, C&D has been there to criticize. I hope C&D continues to be as good after Csaba Csere leaves.

 

As my favorite magazine, i share your concern.

 

Oh the dirty media dogs for sure! A bunch of ****ing sheisters, pond scum, no good bums! I can't stand em'. I'd like to see em' out of business for their bias...

 

+1 for Car and Driver- I have been a subscriber since the early '70's- they were always mavericks, took a lot of flack for not rating their advertiser's cars higher- but they usually tell it like they see it- and lots of good tech articles- Most of the staff of Automobile magazine, writers and editor, worked at C&D before they started that competitive magazine- Much more reliable and technically oriented that Motor Trend or Road & Track- They have sponsored many races and series over the year, including several Canonball runs and the One Lap of America series- good stuff-

 

Am I the only one that has a family that has never, ever had a truly BAD American car? My parents have never had a true lemon...neither have I, or my grandparents, extended family etc. Other than a now-traded-in CRV, we all drive domestics as well...which says a lot considering how many families have a lot of foreign cars being driven these days.

Right from the '79 Chevette and '73 Camaro my parents owned when I was born, through the '08 Explorer, '05 TrailBlazer, '02 Formula and '03 Explorer they own now, they've never been stranded, ever...nor have they ever had a truly fatal repair needed. Same goes for myself as well.

The biggest repairs they've had? A '91 Grand Am SE H.O. Quad 4 cracked a head in '98 with 85k on it...that sucked. $1,000 later, it was driven to 155k before it was donated to charity. To be frank, the closest thing to a lemon they've owned is their current '03 Explorer Limited...the 4.6 flat sucks in it. With 65k miles on it, they just had all the HLA's replaced on the RH head because it rapped worse than Coolio on start-up for the first few minutes. 3 months later, its rapping again. It also has a case of dissappearing coolant, which baffles the dealer, my father, myself etc. It doesn't leak it...it doesn't appear to burn it...but its going somewhere, and no one can figure out where. However, the car was flawless until this last summer, but around 60k things started going downhill fast...2 wheel bearings, 6 disc fried, engine issues...they've spent over $2k on it since August, and it still isn't right

Yet meanwhile, my dad's '05 TB LT just passed 105k, with no issues. ONE REPAIR in that time...a squeaky idler pulley. Pretty flawless IMO. All this crap with the '03 Explorer happened 2 months after they bought the '08. I doubt they would have bought the '08 if they knew the '03 was about to give them major troubles...

They still would've bought American, but one has to wonder...how many other crappy Explorers are out there that are tarnishing Ford's image? Among many other crappy models from other domestic makes? I know the Japanese aren't flawless either...but its gonna take more time. What is sad to me is that people on here claim all the time that quality died in the '80s and early '90s...yet the cars we had were great. My dad's '85 Calais that he traded in for that '91 Grand Am needed nothing in 115k miles. My '89 Camaro liked to eat reman alternators, otherwise it was great too for 13 years and 94k miles. My '95 Grand Am I sold in 2002 with 125k miles on it is STILL being driven by the girl I sold it to with nearly 200k on it, running strong.

I look at my cars as investments in the future...pure and simple. It won't help the domestics sell more cars to me now, but it will later. My wife's '04 Comp G will still be reliable at 150k, IMO. I'm thoroughly impressed with the strength of the '03+ HD Rams...other than the typical ball joint/tie rod end issues that plague ALL HD trucks, they're extremely reliable...far better than most GM/Ford loyalists would give them credit for. My Camaros are driven so little, day-to-day reliability isn't as important...but I wouldn't hesitate to drive my '91 on a 2,000 mile road trip somewhere tomorrow. Its proved to be more reliable than I expected, having put around 10k miles on it in 3 years of ownership.

I know when the market turns around, my wife and I pay down her student loans, pay off the truck etc., a GM sedan will replace the Comp G. It'll be awhile from now, but I have complete faith in the products...