Bend and twist as you may, you can't make a Duramax Silverado into a diesel car, a Cobalt into a hatchback, Tapshift into a manual or Last year's GTO into this years low cost RWD car. I'm surprised you didn't try to sell me a Silverado hybrid as an Accord Hybrid competitor or sell me FWD car with traction control as superior to AWD.

I know, it's frustrating. But when GM stops saying "close enough" and starts delivering the EXACT products that people want to buy, then they will see their market share increase. There are lots of choices and segments out there these days. People don't have to settle.

 

 

You said diesel. I gave you a diesel. If you had yearned for a diesel CAR, perhaps you should have specified that. I tried to accommodate your possible teeny-diesel-car needs with that gentle reminder about Belgium...
Who cares, really? Haul a lot of hay bales, do you? A split-folding rear seat provides 95% of the utility of the hatchbacks of yore, with none of the structural flimsiness. Today's darling, the 05 Mustang, even has such a rear seat!
TapShift works just fine for me. Some peeps want to pump a clutch - fine go ahead. I also provided plenty of manual GM examples, conveniently ignored by your flyby rant.
Wait, let me go check the calendar. Yep, still CY2004! Yep, 04 GTO's are still the newest GTO you can buy at a dealer! Yep, still an amazing performance bargain, M6, RWD, and capable of humiliating many if not most Mustangs!
Frustrated is not where you'll be finding me. I'm happy as a clam with my two GM cars... and eagerly awaiting more on the way. There will always be a crew of sad sacks lamenting the lack of the 'perfect set of offerings' ( )... I'd rather celebrate what we have and enjoy the heck out of it while the next wave of extraordinary GM muscle cars prepare to rumble into the showroom... beginning in a couple months with the 400 hp 2005 GTO

Say - where's that 2005 400 hp Mustang Cobra? 2005 Lightning F150? 2005 SVT Focus? Wow - what a performance GAP!

 

Because we live in tundra and regularly have 10 feet snowfalls. That, and we have an open hunt on polar bears.

Toronto is a relatively flat city, but there are areas (including the area where I live) that has some steep uphills. I drive on snow covered roads frequently enough where the comfort of AWD pays off in my books.

Take note next time you drive in the storm or shorly after of how many people need assistance pushing their cars.


I think you're missing the point of AWD cars. Although majority of snow may be plowed to the side during or after the storm, there is a fine layer of slippery slush or even snow still remaining. How can the added traction of AWD be overhyped? And while I do not doubt that most major roads are cleared within hours of snowfall, what percentage of people live downtown or on main roads?

Is there a compelling need for AWD? No. But it far exceeds the need for HUD or TapShift or even navigation. I think NAV and HUD are very neat, but those are mostly wants, not needs, unless you are in logistics. AWD is a need in certain weather conditions.

What do F1, Indy, NHRA have to do with snow and winter driving? All truly fast and quick cars are parked in the winter. Some are not even driven when it's raining. Then, at the same time, among the fast and the quick there are the likes of DSM, Skyline, Subaru and Evo.

I do not disagree with you there, it is a fine compromise, but why compromise if you don't have to? You mention that all fast cars are RWD, yet you are saying that FWD is fine enough. FWD are at the bottom of the list for performance. But, we are talking about winter driving after all.

No point in blasting. But there is a point in getting moving instead of standing still, or worse yet sliding backwards as you desperately are trying to get going forwards.

FWD will get you around quite well, I do not disagree there, although is has its own problems in the snow, such as understeering or making turns going downhill. RWD will also get you around. Is there an advantage of FWD over RWD in the snow? Most would agree yes. Similarly, it takes no fool to realize there is advantage of AWD to either RWD or FWD. The question is, are YOU justified enough in purchasing AWD?

More components, more likelihood of something going amiss. Most of the time, though, maintenance rarely requires anything more than simply checking fluid levels. It's interesting how some manufacturers offer AWD at a relatively small price increase, and yet others charge an arm and a leg.

AWD will probably not be a high percentage of sales for GM, yet many automakers are offering it on their models. BMW, Mercedes, VW, Audi, Subaru, Infiniti, soon Chrysler. Are they missing the market and going after lost cuase? Hardly. I don't know how much sense it would make for GM to offer AWD vehicles, and whether research and developments costs would be recovered. The fact that there are so many choices of AWD vehicles offered is a strong indication that it is in demand. Is all demand justified? Probably not. But neither is there justified demand for various luxurious options. I happen to be among the ones who think that AWD is a welcome feature to have on a car that is used for daily driving.

 

Nice list, I agree with everything except tiny diesels. They get exceptional gas milage, on par with hybrids. Right now I am doing major commute (70 miles one way, daily), and I would welcome a non-duramax diesel vehicle. So would my father, who also commutes quite the distance to work. Just as an example, VW Golf/Jetta with TDI engine gets twice the milage on the highway as most regular cars.

 

I couldn't help but notice that it was an excellent way to summarize how the entire GM works right now. You want Camaro? Why, if you can have sexy Monte and sleek Cobalt SS?

 

Those two cars have mass appeal. I thought people here were wringing their hands about how GM is going to once again grow market share?

 

[QUOTE=snorkelface]The Cobalt was only an example of how I've lost faith in domestics in general (especially Chevy).

To be honest, that thing just looks like a product of malibu mating with a neon.

And the Cobalt isn't somethign for me to even get curious about, bro. It's just a redesigned Cavalier.

Quote WERM, "you dont have to settle".

 

Well, tell us what Ford is offering these days that really gets your blood pumping? Judging by your latest buying habits, they look to be at the top of your list...

 

Do your homework. Cobalt is an all new car. the Cobalt SS will out perform the RSX in both handleing and acceleration (and price)

 

Good for you! (I guess?) Or should I say, my sympathies? Actually Detroit is about as extreme a climate I want to wake up to each day. There are scientists living on the Arctic Circle too... should GM have a track vehicle lineup for them?
Understandable, and the Saab 9-2X was made for folks like you. Problem solved.
Actually we just had a major storm in Detroit. NOT ONCE did I see someone needing a push. Why? (a) I worked from home that day on my laptop; (b) what little driving I did was local and on main roads; and (c) people with cars that can't go in snow find another way to get around when it's messy. Very few people nowadays go out and get stranded. I'm SURE we'd hear about it on the sensationalist media if they did.
Actually most people DO live in cities or on main roads, funny how that works! If there is a fine layer of snow or slush on the roads, who needs to be going so fast that they would be outdriving their ability to brake and stop? AWD offers no advantage there and FWD gets around fine in most such conditions - hence its widespread popularity on the Civic, Camry, Mazda 6, Grand Am, Focus, Le Sabre, Taurus, Maxima, ... gee I could go on and on here.
The 'need' for AWD is compelling only in a small fraction of the buying public. Many other buyers find a way to be fine without it. Thus the limited offerings.
My point was, the AWD owner pays 12 months a year to be able to go like a demon in lousy weather (even though they have to stop like everyone else). In the summer, they still carry all that weight of the extra gears and shafts, still pay the extra gas and maintenance. Yet in the summer, they will get smacked around by RWD cars whose drivetrains are optimized for speed and balanced handling. FWD makes a better winter car for most folks since the summer 'penalties' of FWD are milder. This is where AWD fans usually chime in with "well I can go faster than RWD on wet summer roads too!"... Fine... can you stop better?
Well lets take a look shall we, at the cost difference between 5-yr ownership of a RWD vs AWD 2004 BMW 325. edmunds.com says you pay $42,461 including $17,765 depreciation for an RWD... but $44,996 for the AWD with depreciation of $19,337 - - not to mention hundreds more $$ in fuel. In this case the maintenance and repairs are not much different, possibly due to the name. But that $2500 difference... that's $2500 I could put in the stock market, or $2500 I could put into performance parts. That's real money.

 

I agree with Steve. GM has missed the boat. Now they're behind and it's awful hard to catch back up. They won't say a word about a chevy performance coupe and that's really discouraging. I know you will say "have faith," but have faith in what? A car whose rumored existence has been denied time after time? What, exactly are they trying to hide? They don't have to worry now, since all the competing performance domestic coupes have been completed and are near production/already in production. If they don't want us to know about it so bad, then who are they gonna make it for?

Geez, if they really wanted to make the damn car then screw trying to pussyfoot around and take care of all the roadblocks with money and make the damn car. They are one of the largest and most powerful corporations in the world, you can't tell me that it wouldn't make sense.

I love the styling of the new Acuras. I like the new styling of the Mustang. Chevy needs a kick in the pants or something.

 

and if he doesnt like the Saab for personal reasons? is he just SOL?

so its not a problem unless the "sensationalist" media airs it as a problem? you need rethink that one.

actually i can only think of a handful of people i know that live on major snow routes around here. most of the major snow routes have businesses on them not houses. and FWIW i prefered driving my RWD trans am with nitto drag radials on it in the snow to the FWD crap box that i drove the year before that.

by that same token trucks should only appeal to a limited market. but by god they sell around here EVERYONE. i wish i would have opted for the 4WD version of my truck instead of the sport version. but thats because i bought the truck to drive everyday that i couldnt drive my performance car. gee, what a topic that must be.

actually most AWD systems now-a-days really dont hinder much like they used to. hell most AWD cars today dont even use the back wheels until the front slips.

wonder what they had to replace that cost $2500 and wasnt covered under warranty? another thing to take into consideration is that alot of people buy specialty vehicles, which in a sense i consider an AWD vehicle as a specialty vehicle. sometimes that person has another car that they drive if the weather and roads are good. so that more than evens out the differences in gas costs. plus if gas costs were a concern, then why does the new yuppy *** f150 sell so well? surely everyone that buys that truck is a contractor. o wait, my mistake, some arent even v8 trucks.

 

Well I agree it's a shame they don't currently offer a Camaro... looks to me, from what I read here, it was a combination of mistakes by folks like Ron Zarella and also the CAW that led to the current predicament. Why they don't have an announcement today - I don't know either. But my point all along has been to look for the good instead of griping about the bad. And there is plenty of good stuff coming now from GM.

 

I know most of it is because of Ron Zarella. The CAW-I'd say it would be fairly simplet to take care of with money.