I like both cars...as far as sedans go, but...
so true

 

Then its time to get a new set of eyeglasses.

 

I find it a wee bit ironic that you dismiss GM as offering nothing for you when in fact the Saab 9-2 Aero wagon is a close clone of one of your cars... how can you stand it, this blatant 'badge engineering' ? !

And while AWD is nice in the snow (what kind of fool races in the snow anyway?) it appears that on regular pavement the GTP outpaces a WRX wagon, by a few ticks to 60 and in the quarter. In the WRX wagon, the buyer gives up options like HUD, DVD-based navigation, TapShift and even basics like shoulder- and hip-room for that almighty clutch. Whatever melts your butter I guess. Surprisingly though, when I compare the max cargo capacity of the WRX wagon and the GTP, they are only a few cubic feet apart (62 vs 57). Could it be, I've got the best of both worlds?

 

Not only do you need eyeglasses but you need to learn to count to 4.
1
2- number of doors on GTO
3
4- Number of doors on Shown Grand Prix

 

LOL. Wow, there's some really sensitive, ****-retentive people around here.

It was a joke. Do you understand joke?

Joke: Something said or done to evoke laughter or amusement, especially an amusing story with a punch line.
- A mischievous trick; a prank.
- An amusing or ludicrous incident or situation.
- Something not to be taken seriously; a triviality.
- An object of amusement or laughter; a laughingstock.

Per www.dictionary.com

The person to which it was pointed even came back with one of his own - somehow, I was able to see the humor in it. I'm sorry ya'll were not. You have my condolences.

So that nobody will get unnecessarily peeved, I'll shelve the picture of the ratted out GP that I was going to post in response (and in jest) to Big's response.

Ya'll have a wonderful day, ya hear?

 

Where is the "Who gives a fu(k" smiley when you need it? Take a hike...oh wait, you did that a long time ago as someone already pointed out.

 

That is a very very valid point.



That is a nice looking GTP BigDarknFast . If I bought one, it would certainly be that color & have those rims.

In the future, I may settle for a sedan (or God forbid, FWD! ), but for now, GM doesn't have anything I'd buy. I'd consider a Cobalt SS as a daily driver, perhaps. It's on track to be a great little well made, tuner friendly, land missle. But you have to admit, although GM's new management is all over it, there isn't anything for the affordable RWD guys.

If I had waited as long for Ford to get serious about performance (they killed the SC, and the Cobra was no quicker than the F body yet cost alot more), I would have waited for the supercharged Cobra. Instead, I came to GM for the Z28. If GM makes the same mistake, there's no surprise or shame in jumping ship. It makes no sense waiting a few years till someone brings out the car you want when the average person only holds on to a new car a few years to begin with.

 

Well, I will tell you, after meeting my first winter with AWD, it is exceptionally high on my priority list for a daily driver. navigation? Probably a very nice feature, but I never used it. HUD - also very nice. But driving an AWD car in the snow, on icy surfaces - priceless . I had front wheel drive cars, i had rear wheel drive cars, I fitted them with snow tires, and as good as they handled, you simply cannot beat AWD for parking, getting into spaces, going uphill, even off-road (reasonably). Out of Navigation, HUD, TapShift, AWD wins by a longshot in my books.

Of course, if you live in states that do not have much accumulation (if any), AWD might be somewhere at the bottom of the list.

 

Havent the Grand Prix's been doing well since the redesign to "wider is better?" I know the first year i didnt see too many on the roads, but once they got the 2nd model year and the GTP I saw them everywhere. I still see a lot, but more are the newer style... I love the new nav system in the hud. Once you use it you want it in every car you have... to me it's THAT good.

I dont see any 300C's anymore though. None. It's kinda scary. They were all over, now they are either away for the winter or were returned or what have you. However I see atleast a Magnum a day, and every time I think of getting on in black. Also I see those friggin Equinox's all over the place. Silly *** things. GM did decent I guess.

Didnt GM prototype a 270hp cobalt? I bet the thing has plenty of room to grow with mods - almost makes you wonder what the same blown engine in a rwd convertible or coupe could do!

Lutz is taking GM where it needs to be. In a few more years it should be in great shape. Till then I still have the faith. That or I just want a turbo Sky...

EDIT: And I live in upstate NY and dislike AWD in winter driving. Everything that has it tends to understeer or be a POS to work on. RWD isnt hard to drive at all once you realize what you're doing. Parking? Only thing I ever had issue was with getting up steep driveways, and then it was do it nice and easy or gun it and let the posi do it's thing If it's a truck though, it's 4x4 all the way.

For some reason the Subaru's never did anything for me. I was a 4g63 owner myself, so I was all into the AWD rocket segment, but it got to the point where it was great to have, but a pain to work on. I'd rather a truck or something. But with 4 KDWS tires my camaro made it through the snow without ever complaining - even when opening the door pushed snow away it was so low... That was a "posi" moment

 

Traction control makes a HUGE difference in snow, and with FWD is plenty for most people. I will never by a 2WD again with out TC. I like the rear wheels to spin and would love to see a $1995 versatrek AWD option on just about all GM's FWD cars, especially the W-bodys. AWD with the S/C 3800 would have sold me on the Monte or Impala SS in a heartbeat.

 

1. Thanks you for the photo. I'm still not convinced by HUDs in cars, but your "snapshot" demonstrates the system better than anything GM has ever put in a brochure.

2. I've made my opinions about the Grand Prix pretty clear.

 

[QUOTE=steve2002]BDF, thats more of what I was expecting

First, to everyone else, I seriously doubt that the Cobalt can even come close to the handling of the RSX, which is what really sold me. ON the HP, I thought it was the high revs that made it feel fast, but trust me, one time I found out the hard way that the RSX can spank a car with twice its engine.
QUOTE]

This is so typical and laughable. You have obviously NEVER driven a Cobalt. You've probably never even seen one, nor do you know anything about them. Despite this, you "seriously doubt that the Cobalt can even come close to the handling of the RSX." How lame is that?

And people get all mad when someone bashes an import, but this kind of crap is OK because it's a domestic vehicle, right?

 

Seeing as how you're from Toronto, I'll go easy on you. But suffice it to say - AWD is one of the more over-hyped features out there today. Really, how often are you out actually driving on snow-covered, hilly roads? Most folks down here in the civilized USA stay off the roads during major storms. Roads in all but the most primitive areas are cleared of snow within the first hour or two of a storm. (I live in the Detroit area and have since 1994; before that I lived in Denver, Cleveland and Omaha). I have had several FWD, RWD and one 4WD vehicles in my thirty years of driving so far. Yet I don't feel a compelling need for AWD. I have a FWD car I drive in the winter, and a RWD in the summer. Let's face it, all the truly fast and quick cars in the world are RWD. NHRA, F1, Indy and the list goes on. And FWD is a fine compromise in the winter. What exactly is the point of blasting around with AWD on ice? Got an anchor you throw out for stopping? Then there's the cost of AWD, in both weight, sticker, and ops/maintenance cost. Why the bother? I'll tell you why GM doesn't have slews of AWD offerings -- there simply is not the corresponding huge DEMAND for it, especially when FWD does just fine for less $$. I'd much rather put my $$ into a few luxuries and power parts.

 

MY rant is that no one makes a sports SUV that is practical and somewhat affordable.

Like a small 2dr SUV with a V8(350hp) and 4x4 or AWD for around 35K or less. If they would make it, it wouldnt have 4x4\AWD or wouldnt be practical, IE: would be a 2 seater pick up.

From my perspective, having a(almost wife) GF narrows my choices of vehicules. I want power and RWD. GF wants what all women want, security and height. Its no secret women want SUVs because there heigh and give that extra feeling of safety, not to mention the usual available 4x4 that goes a lot better in snow wich increases said feeling of safety.

So what better compromise then to put what a guy wants into the packaging that a women wants. Wouldnt that be a recipe for a great vehicule?

2 door SUV with AWD and 350HP(DOD) that has some aggressivie styling to it.

Wonder what everyone else thinks?

 

Incorrect, from stem to stern.

Performance wagon? Saab 9-2X Aero wagon. Edmunds has them at $24k true market price, with the same vaunted clutch and turbo AWD drivetrain you cherish... guess that's expensive for an AWD wagon in your book ( )
Low-cost RWD coupe - 04 GTO's are available right now for $24-25k; too much for you as well?
Diesel - like the Silverado with an optional Duramax 6600 Turbodiesel 6.6L ?
(If you were referring to a teeny diesel econobox, you truly should consider moving to Belgium)
Fun hatchback with clutch? Cobalt SS not good enough for you of course... and it's not *sniff* a true hatchback anyway since it only has a split folding rear seat
Clutch-laden vehicles - Such as the Cobalt, CTS, C6, GTO, Silverado and of course the multitude of manumatics available such as my TapShift-equipped CompG.
I'm not going to bother debating the vehicles you "wouldn't consider" anyway. The absolute absurdity of having those items on your list just now hit me