Guys, I am a V8 fanatic - I doubt anyone loves V8 rumble and torque any more than myself, and I know most of you other gear-heads in this forum love them too - it's obvious!

BUT, we have got to stand back a little bit and look at the bigger picture.
* Gas will never be $1.00/gal again, and it is only going to go up.
* Fuel economy is going to become ever-more important, even after the fad wears off.
* V8's are not NECESSARY to transport people or light goods.

In the bigger picture, I think we will see all carmakers producing less V8's for average consumer needs. There will be a trend towards V6 and I4 type engines (rapidly moving towards diesel ones too), hybrid and synergy systems will continue to grow, and we will eventually end up at some 100% electrically motivated vehicle when all is said and done. The V8 is going to become an exclusive for big luxury and muscle/pony cars.

Having said that, I can see the need to accomodate a V8 in the Lincoln line-up, and the Fairlane will need it as an option as well (at least at launch and for the first few years as a "draw" to get conventional wagon buyers to consider it). However, the rest of Ford's lineup could probably fare just as well without a V8 as with it IMO. It's really only a big issue to gearheads like us. The typical soccer mom will not care if it has a 320hp V8 or a 265hp V6, I promise - they will be MORE concerned about mileage ratings and what the price is.

 

Hemi powered V8s still account for most of Chrysler 300's sales. The Impala SS is still selling at a far higher number than the previous blown V6 version. V8 powered Cadillacs are still doing very well. Gas drops a mere 50 cents per gallon, and big V8 powered trucks and SUVs end up carrying both GM & Ford's rebound last month. I haven't seen the sales of V8 Lexus, Infinitis, BMWs, or Mercedes (let alone Audis), but I'd wager their sales haven't been very affected.

It depends what type of car you're thinking about as to if V8s are going to be adversely affected. Seems V8 luxury vehicles are still strong. IMO, Lincoln is not only going to miss out if it doesn't have a V8 vehicle, but it's also going to seem very odd that Ford's V8 engines are in Crown Vics, Mercury Marquis, even Mustangs, but none is available in Ford's flagship division, Lincoln.

 

You are correct, except the move away from V8s for passenger vehicle applications is a 25 year old trend. Every 2 our of 3 BMW 5 Series sales are 6 cylinder models. The once 100% Cadillac Seville (STS) V8 sales is down to over half that number in percentage and volume. Since a significant majority of Ford panther vehicles are fleeted, there V8 penetration on the retail market is not what it was 15 years ago. The Chrysler Hemi LX cars were the exception at the time by creating V8 demand in a segment which today face the after effects of Katrina and now subsidized by fleet and lease give aways thereby creating an artificial demand.

Your assessment is correct. The V8 will continue to be a niche powertrain offerring for the reasons you cite.

There might be confusion out there, V8 availability does not equal more total volume in the passenger vehicle market. My comments exclude pickup trucks and truck based SUVs.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Hemi V8 powered LXs almost exclusively retail sales while fleet vehicles are V6 across the board? Ditto the V8 sales of the W cars? Also, what after effects (outside of the still bad conditions of the pooer sections of the Gulf Coast & New Orleans) are affecting V8 sales?

I agree 100% that the move away from V8s has been a long term trend, and almost certainly isn't going to let up. I also agree that V8 is more an aspirational engine while the public tends to buy V6 versions instead. But Chrysler is no doubt selling more V8 cars than they have in recent memory (because they had no passenger car V8s), Chevy is selling more V8s than it has since Camaro died, and that number will no doubt go up higher with the new Camaro if percentages are similar to Mustang's 50%.

The V8 is already a niche engine. Save the Ford Panther cars and most Cadillacs, V8s today tend only to be available in performance option packages or on certain designated performance cars, and (again save for the Panther & Police cars) are almost exclusively retail. To my knowledge (and I'll admit on Bimmers it's limited unless I do an internet search so I may be wrong) BMW 5 series have always been mostly 6 cylinder. Maybe not 2 out of 3, but over 50%

Overall, I'd say short of catostrophic fuel prices that bring down SUVs first, I'd say V8s will continue on a very slow downward trend, but will still be around for a long time.

I'm old enough to remember the V8 obituaries of the late 70s. Instead, nearly 30 years later we have 400 horsepower, 195 mph Corvettes and 2 ton Crown Victorias getting the same fuel economy (and in the Vicky's case, nearly 3 times the horsepower) as the sub 100 horsepower, fuel efficient, barrometer-of-cars-to-come, Ford Pinto.

No age comments please.

 

Your not wrong as of the last time I looked at the mix. But with DCX right now, who knows what they are doing. DCX could be donating SRTs to the Good Will to move the product at this point. But they are in Fleet.

The V8s in the Ws last I looked into it were not high volume sales. Maybe 30k between the three or there abouts.

Looking at the Panthers, in the late 1990s Ford was selling app. 300k/yr. Today it is about 1/2 that number and only 1/3 retail. So out of app 160k Panters to be sold this year only about 60k will be sold to people!

The 6 cylinder! Putting the enthusiast hat to the side for a moment, there is very little point to pay the premium of an 8 for everyday driving.

Looking at it from the real-world perspective, I/V6s are making 250 - 300hp.

What's the point of the V8 besides a little marketing hype and "rag mag" comparison testing.


As I said in my earlier post, do not confuse availability with total sales.

V8 sales ARE app. 1/3 of total 5 Series sales. I reviewed the data before I posted it.

Lexus Oct. 2006 2005
GS 300 1,793 2,279
GS 430/450h 204 366

V12 are still around also! Though in very limited numbers.

 

Getting back to the Lincoln D3.

If Ford would bring the vehicle with the V8 priced at app. $35K then there might be a marketing point but they will not. They most likely will price it at $45k to mimic Cadillac.

So in the end they might sell a few thousand/yr?

More Bold Blunders from Ford. The V8 will not make a difference.

 

Chrysler is an interesting situation, because not only did they have the hallowed V8/RWD option, they also put a humongous amount of advertising dollars behind it, really making the engine the central focus of their product line in a way that no other manufacturer has done.

Of course, when gas prices went up, a lot of people seem to have translated "It's a HEMI" into "It's a Gas Guzzler", and DCX sales plummeted. Anyway, recent advertising for the 300 push the V6 and it's fuel economy.

 

What is the expected price for the MKS with the 3.7L V6?

I would not be surprised to see Ford end up primarily a truck manufacturer.

 

Considering I priced out a loaded, glorified Fusion MKZ at almost $38k, a 500 AWD is about 32K MSRP loaded and the MKX starts at $35k, I think a safe guess is app. $37k for the MKZ.

 

Ford has already semi-officially announced that this car will have a 3.7l V6 development of the new 3.5, and that the new engine can be further developed for things like DI, turbos, etc.

So I'm expecting a premium-optimized, DI, 3.7l V6, with (as a guess) around 315hp. At that point, a 60 degree 4.4V8 at the same power level doesn't look too good to me. Ford has also hinted that there will be an engine above the 3.7. Guesses revolve around a turbo option....

Ford's been getting a bad buzz over cancelling the 4.4, but it looks like a good idea to me, especially if Lincoln will also get some sort of RWD car with the new Boss V8. Who knows if that'll happen, though?

The standard for V8 engines is nearly 400hp now (5.5l Mercedes, 4.6l Lexus, 4.8l BMW). Ford is supposedly working on a new or updated Jag V8 that will move Jag from their current 300hp level, and of course, there is the new Boss V8. The 4.4l is just another dated V8 at this time