mr00jimbo

The Toyota will last me throughout college, then I want a Cadillac.
Okay? So?

I'm here griping about GM's past and their problems. Other people are flaming me, throwing up their American flag and swearing by GM to the very squeak-and-rattled end.
Now, car companies improve on complaints. It's how they make progress, you learn from your mistakes.
If we have everybody here buying a GM-made car REGUARDLESS of its faults just to support GM, then guess what? No improvements will just be made out of the blue.

But if you gripe about the interior, the fit and finish, styling, RWD factor, etc. etc. then somebody answers your prayers.

Example being the Cadillac Seville STS. Nice car. FWD. Torque steer on 300 to the crank is a bish. Low and behold- 30-something years later and the STS (Seville nameplate dropped) is now rear wheel drive.

When people bitch and walk into competing lots, then GM will frantically run around searching for a sollution. If you settle with what they have currently, they won't change **** for you; why spend more money when you can have more profit?

I saw one of those Epica or whatever, some full-sized Chevy car. I looked inside. The interior was....NICE. It didn't happen out of the blue; it's because people pissed and moaned about the ones of yesteryear that made GM up its standards.
Ditto with the Hummer H3. It finally has a nice interior now be cause people complained.

So keep on complaining if you wanna get somewhere!

Jason E

I've only b!tched at you when you've shown blatant bias against CURRENT offerings. I've even challenged to prove to you your bias, but I never had to...your response to my challenge had bias right in it

Every car has issues. Every car has problems. Go to a Celica forum and see all the people who have blown up VVTLi engines. I've even seen people write into C&D about that engine, and ask them why they continue their bias claiming that because its Toyota, "it has legendary quality."

I can't think of one regular on here who claims older GM products were up to par. But when you start slamming the new crop, that's when some of us get a little pissed off. When you told me a Cobalt had a crappy interior and that's why you bought the Corolla, uhm, yeah. I sat in an XRS a year ago. I have no idea why anyone thinks the inside of a Corolla is anything special. Its not horrible, but its nothing great...and IMO its more plasticky than a Cobalt.

Don't wonder why you get slammed sometimes, with all due respect.

mr00jimbo

The engine blew up because of driver error; people tried to downshift into 4th and went into 2nd by mistake. The shifter had short throws and some people never got used to it. I have a 2ZZ-GE (VVTLi engine you're referring to) and it's problem free so far.

Sorry you feel that way. The seats have been raved about, the steering wheel and shifter is leather, the door handles are metal, and the rest is, plastic. Just like every other car out there. Can you blame a car for having a plastic dashboard?
It doesn't squeak/rattle and the whole car feels solid over bumps and traintracks.

And reasons being for not buying a Cobalt was never interior issues. I don't like buying the first model year of a brand new car, for one, and another i was concerned about the resale;
"I want to sell my Cobalt"
"Okay it's worth 11 now, and you owe 15, pay us 4 grand and it'll be off your hands"
"But I don't want it any more"
"Too bad"

Jason E

Quick story regarding "the old GM."

My first car was an '89 Camaro 2.8 my mother purchased new in September, 1989. Technically, she probably could have lemon lawed the damn thing. Squeaks, rattles, a stalling problem...it was a PITA for the first 2 years under warranty. And then? During 13 years and 96,000 miles of ownership under my mother and I, it ate 2 alternators and one starter. It never left me stranded either, I might add. Other than brakes, tires and maintenance items, that car was a Swiss watch. You got the bugs worked out under warranty back then, and a lot of times it was smooth sailing My father's '95 Grand Prix never had a warranty claim. Come to think of it, my father's '85 Olds Calais never did either, and to this day he still claims its the best car he ever had...8 years and 125k miles, and he never replaced a part besides one exhaust, one set of brakes and one set of tires.

So even the old GM wasn't as bad as some people would love to claim. It just wasn't as good sometimes as the old Toyota.

Jason E

I sincerely hope your engine does last a long time. Seeing as how you have to rev the crap out of it to make it move (I know...I've sold 5-6 Vibe GTs since their debut), sometimes I wonder. And actually, not EVERYONE whi has blown a 2ZZ-GE has overreved the damn thing...I'll be happy to find the C&D letter and post it on here if you don't believe me.

There are plastics, and there are nice plastics. Please, don't act like I'm stupid. You know what I mean...we discuss it on here all the time. The seats are nice, yadda yadda. So are a Cobalt's, but for some reason you claimed the inside of a Cobalt is cheap. IMO, that's bias. I can't see how ANYONE can substantiate that claim. Are you aware of Cobalts squeaking or rattling? What's your point?

Your post claimed you get hammered a lot...I'm just explaining why you get hammered. I don't expect you to necessarily agree, or appreciate anything I have to say. Nor do I want to nitpick your XRS...if you like it, good for you. But when you come on here and act like Toyota is great and your XRS is going to be bulletproof (the way you claimed, oh, about 6 months ago), DON'T BE SURPRISED WHEN YOU GET FLAMED.

Jason E

I can search your old posts if you'd like There was a definitive bias against the Cobalt from one of your own posts. I'm not trying to start a pissing contest here, but it irks me that someone who's spouted off as much as you have wonders why many don't agree with you, and then you change your story later on!!!

mike996

See what I want to know is, have you ever owned a GM car? One that wasn't a $200 beater. I doubt you have since you had the GTI then the Corolla. Once you have the experience on your own personal car then you have the right to bitch and complain. The only thing you have to say is the reasons why you didn't buy a brand new GM car.

I swear some people like imports just so they can hate American cars.

Jason E

I've owned 7 GM cars in my 9 years driving, ranging from a $500 '87 Buick Shyhawk to a brand new '02 Grand Am GT coupe. I've owned a J body, 3 F bodies, 2 N bodies and now my beloved W body. Not one of them has cost me over $350 at one time to repair, ever (and that was a water pump on the $500 Skyhawk!!). My biggest "lemon" of all was actually my '02 Grand Am, which visited the dealer more than a few times for everything from brake rotors to trim pieces to window regulators breaking.

And yet, I still buy GM cars. I've owned my GP for almost 2 years, and have had one problem with it that GM is willing to honor under warranty, even though my car has 56k on it now (the car has had a steering rack issue from day one...it was a lease, and I think the original owner hit one too many potholes!!). I have no problem buying another, despite having a less than satisfying new car experience with my Grand Am.

I think the last line in your post is the most accurate

91_z28_4me

Yeah this is future vehicle related

mike996

I wasn't talking to you. I was talkin to mr00jimbo but for typing all that out

Jason E

I know you weren't referring to me I guess I'm just in a mood to argue tonight

mr00jimbo

Sure. The car beside mine in the garage is a Buick, which I drove probably MORE than the GTI. It doesn't belong to me but that doesn't stop me from noticing the faulty fuel gauge, the fuel pump that went 20 feet into ownership, the faulty CD player, the creaking "wood" trim, the power s eats that quit whenever they feel like it, etc.

mr00jimbo

And Jason if everybody's GM experience was like yours, they wouldn't have personally admit they have a problem, had to throw in employee pricing and the best selling car in America wouldn't be foreign.

nowandthen

I hear you mr00jimbo.

Constructive criticism is neccessary in order to improve your product. I think some of you guys are too quick to defend GM no matter what. (flame suit on).

I grew up a GM guy, specifically Chevrolet. I visit this site because I want GM to succeed. But you can't keep telling the emperor his clothes are beautiful. Let's face it, where I live, California, if I buy a GM product, come resale time I'm in a bit of a fix. If I buy Toyota, I'd have no trouble selling my used car. Sorry, that's the way it is. Now, having said that, the quality of GM's product is way up. Why? Because they had to improve it or die. I really, really want GM to succeed but if their product is junk (it is much better now) or boring (I hope they get better soon), I'm not buying.

I think the Solstice and Sky will be hot products although the way the top fits looks rather shabby.

mr00jimbo

Exactly how I feel!
GM shouldn't have to rely on employee discounts and people shouldn't have to use patriotism as an excuse to buy a GM car. They should buy it because it's the best not because they feel ashamed to buy an "import"

GM is improving, but they still make typical GM like mistakes (FWD V8 Impala, FWD Pontiac w/ Northstar)
but they ARE improving. Why? Cause people complained, not because people bought their cars when they were slipping.