Hydrogen Generating Module for retrofit...
Re: Hydrogen Generating Module for retrofit...
Originally Posted by WERM
I'm still not sure about the physics. I thought it takes the same energy to split water into hydrogen and oxygen as that released when the two are combined in combustion. Since no process is 100% efficient, it takes more energy to make hydrogen than it would to combust it.
Given that, how could this box increase the gas mileage???
Given that, how could this box increase the gas mileage???
What it does allow us to do is use electricity, generated from coal or renewable resources, to power our cars.
Re: Hydrogen Generating Module for retrofit...
Originally Posted by WERM
I'm still not sure about the physics. I thought it takes the same energy to split water into hydrogen and oxygen as that released when the two are combined in combustion. Since no process is 100% efficient, it takes more energy to make hydrogen than it would to combust it.
Originally Posted by from the article
Most internal combustion engines operate at about 35 per cent efficiency. This means that only 35 per cent of the fuel is fully burned. The rest either turns to carbon corroding the engine or goes out the exhaust pipe as greenhouse gases.
The H2N-Gen increases burn efficiency to at least 97 per cent, Williams said. This saves fuel and greatly reduces emissions.
The H2N-Gen increases burn efficiency to at least 97 per cent, Williams said. This saves fuel and greatly reduces emissions.
As to the Gazette's fuel economy test, pretty much any vehicle driven conservatively will surpass its Transport Canada mileage rating. Like the EPA's ratings, they apply a factor that makes them very conservative. Improving that Grand Cherokee's mileage by 10% is absolutely nothing to brag about.
Re: Hydrogen Generating Module for retrofit...
How about the decrease in emissions? Is that theoretically possible by injecting the hydrogen? Even without the fuel savings, if the emissions decrease a lot it may still be worthwhile.
Re: Hydrogen Generating Module for retrofit...
Originally Posted by maksik7
How about the decrease in emissions? Is that theoretically possible by injecting the hydrogen? Even without the fuel savings, if the emissions decrease a lot it may still be worthwhile.
In theory you can reduce carbon output to the extent that you're burning more pure hydrogen, but by the time you pay for the 50% efficiency of the alternator and the 70% efficiency of the electrolysis process, you're not gaining anything. It's similar to the oxygenated fuels many states mandate in the guise of improving emissions. While it might work on carbureted cars, a FI car will sense the additional oxygen in the exhaust stream and add more fuel. For all practical purposes, a modern gasoline engine is pretty much emissions-free once warmed up.
Re: Hydrogen Generating Module for retrofit...
Originally Posted by R377
For all practical purposes, a modern gasoline engine is pretty much emissions-free once warmed up.
Re: Hydrogen Generating Module for retrofit...
WARNING: This product contains snake oil, a wallet-robbing agent of known financially hazardous origins.
Run away. It can't work any better than a perpetual motion machine can. If you use eight pounds of gasoline your engine emits about 120 pounds of carbon dioxide, nitrogen, and water vapor, and that's if it's burning cleanly.
Last I checked, CO2 is a Kyoto protocol emitted greenhouse gas.
Run away. It can't work any better than a perpetual motion machine can. If you use eight pounds of gasoline your engine emits about 120 pounds of carbon dioxide, nitrogen, and water vapor, and that's if it's burning cleanly.
Last I checked, CO2 is a Kyoto protocol emitted greenhouse gas.
Re: Hydrogen Generating Module for retrofit...
Originally Posted by R377
For all practical purposes, a modern gasoline engine is pretty much emissions-free once warmed up.
To add to the heat/efficiency thing, I would like to add another case...
There are actually engines running today with all the friction-producing components made of ceramics (or coated with them in some cases).
I can't recall here at my desk, but the coefficients of thermal expansion for ceramics is orders of magnitude less than for steels. Since ceramics don't expand as much as steels or iron, they are more thermally stable and able to hold tighter tolerances across the range of temps seen by IC engines. By reducing the tolerances, you can actually make an IC engine that has no compression or oil-scraping rings - reducing the heat generated by friction tremendously. Add in ceramic bearings and cam components, and you can basically run the engine without oil or need for lubrication - external cooling becomes optional depending on the size of the engine, the # of cylinders, and their proximity to each other. I have seen and studied these engines back in the mid-90's, and their efficiency was far better than conventional steel and iron units because more of the heat was used in the process instead of being carried away by antifreeze and oil. These ceramic engines can run much hotter than conventional engines, especially ones using hypereutectic aluminum pistons. Emissions was also improved because (as the guys said above) the engine was able to burn hotter - burning out more of the NOx and *** components.
The problem was mass-producing the ceramic parts... the cost was exhorbitant, and at the time no major carmakers or engine companies could justify the expense of tooling for ceramic parts - much less modifying assembly lines to assemble them. Even today, I doubt the gain in efficiency is sufficient to offset the cost of developing the tooling and processing of the ceramic components alone. Think about all the aftermarket and downstream issues... from the original manufacture and handling to the tools in a mechanic's toolbox required to work on them. There's a lot to overcome.
Some of this technology has begun to make it's way into industry though - ceramic bearings is just one venue making large inroads into machine design today.
Interestingly enough, I still see the infrastructure change as THE major hurdle to finally killing the gasoline/diesel engines as we know them. For our nation to go Hydrogen, Fuel cell, or any other alternate fuel will take $Billion$ in private investments from companies and individuals, and it won't happen overnight. (Although I think the $3.50/gal prices we saw a few weeks ago got a few people's attention!)
Other alternatives to try to eliminate friction and wear found in the traditional reciprocating piston-type engine with rings include the Wankel or the Grunstra engines - and there are several more.
Bottom line is, the first technology to give the desired power output at a cost that competes with gas, and with a minimal amount of infrastructure investment - THAT will be the next fuel system for our vehicles. If any of us knew which fuel/system it would be, we would soon be VERY stinking wealthy!
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