Holden, AWD and future cars
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Holden, AWD and future cars
Plenty of info in here. I'm going to highlight(bold) the stuff i think is important. Here is the linky.
Small sedan? you think a coupe version would work for a camaro? pity the AWD system adds 200kg extra! 
GoAuto article
More details are revealed of Holden's Adventra all-wheel drive crossover
By MARTON PETTENDY 29 August 2003
JUST days before Holden releases details of its Cross Trac four-wheel drivetrain, three weeks before we drive it and almost two months before it is launched publicly at the Sydney motor show, GoAuto can reveal more details of Holden’s Commodore wagon-based Adventra all-wheel drive cross-over.
Two auto-only V8 Adventra variants will be launched in October, a month before the same locally-developed, full-time all-wheel drive system going on sale underneath a 4WD Crewman, dubbed Cross8.
Least expensive will be the entry level, Berlina-specification Adventra LS8, powered by a 235kW 5.7-litre Gen III engine and priced around $55,000. Holden’s flagship Adventra will be the Calais-specification LX8, featuring full leather trim and priced around $65,000.
HFV6 versions will not come on stream until late next year, while HSV versions are tipped to be named Avalanche and will be differentiated by body-coloured bumpers, wheelarches and other side cladding instead of Adventra’s dark grey plastics.
As with the Ford Territory, due on sale in June, 2004, third row seating will be optional, and all Adventras will feature as standard an independently opening rear window.
GoAuto sources that have sat in it claim Adventra features only marginally increased ride height and therefore seating, and very little interior differentiation from their respective Commodore wagon donor vehicles. But Adventra will feature longitudinal and lateral incline gauges.
Expect Adventra’s kerb weight to increase over regular Commodore wagons by about 200kg to around 1900kg, while performance of the even heavier Cross8 dual-cab, due on sale in November, is likely to be further blunted by its slightly less powerful 225kW V8.
Holden’s AWD strategy takes shape
By TERRY MARTIN
DESPITE negotiating abroad for small, medium and full-sized four-wheel drive wagons, Holden masterminds are working towards achieving 30,000 annual sales of its own Australian-built all-wheel drive cars well before the decade is out.
How will it get there?
Holden’s Cross Trac full-time four-wheel drive system makes its debut on the Adventra station wagon in October, following in November with the Crewman Cross8.
Until the arrival of the all-new HFV6 engine late in 2004, Cross Trac is being restricted to a 5.7-litre V8 engine mated to a four-speed automatic.
But then cometh the great flood.
We’ll see Cross Trac on V6-powered versions of Adventra, Crewman, One Tonner and Ute – all in automatic form - and the light commercials also with manual transmission.
Holden has also confirmed that at least one passenger car will gain Cross Trac on its current V-car platform – perhaps a limited-edition AWD Monaro coupe, a swansong for two-door coupe before being retired, while production centres on the new generation VE Commodore sedan, wagon and cross-over variants in 2005/6.
Holden Special Vehicles will do something similar and is believed to be showing its hand with a concept car at the Sydney motor show in October. While the performance arm has shelved a rear-drive One Tonner for the time being, HSV is also certain to sell AWD versions of both Adventra and Crewman. Both could be sold under the Avalanche model name.
Resting on an-all new modular platform, VE Commodore will herald a range of AWD passenger cars in mainstream, performance and cross-over divisions.
A higher-roofed Adventra, featuring more flexible seating arrangements, to be sold alongside the current estate-based vehicle, is expected to be one of the first buds from this new platform.
"I think there’s probably room for both and whoever can tackle that problem of satisfying both markets will turn out to be the winner," said Holden executive director engineering and design, Tony Hyde.
Later in the decade, other niche vehicles – a Commodore-based hatchback, a smaller sedan, a sports estate and new generation coupe, for example – will materialise and all-wheel drive will figure in most, if not all.
Amid all this, and depending on whether enough people want it, the AWD range will be bolstered with a manual V8 and manual/auto diesel engine. It is known that Holden is currently evaluating several oil burners, although Mr Hyde said we would not see such an engine in production before 2007.
AWD LPG? There’s no reason to think that won’t happen, too.
"You have to pick and choose where you want to focus your efforts and where you’ll get the best market return and where you’ll satisfy the most customers," Mr Hyde said. "And that’s really what determines how many variants you do in the end as opposed to … what the platform can deliver."
Still, nothing less than 30,000 per annum will do. And with all this lot arriving this decade, there is no reason to think Holden won’t reach that target.
More details are revealed of Holden's Adventra all-wheel drive crossover
By MARTON PETTENDY 29 August 2003
JUST days before Holden releases details of its Cross Trac four-wheel drivetrain, three weeks before we drive it and almost two months before it is launched publicly at the Sydney motor show, GoAuto can reveal more details of Holden’s Commodore wagon-based Adventra all-wheel drive cross-over.
Two auto-only V8 Adventra variants will be launched in October, a month before the same locally-developed, full-time all-wheel drive system going on sale underneath a 4WD Crewman, dubbed Cross8.
Least expensive will be the entry level, Berlina-specification Adventra LS8, powered by a 235kW 5.7-litre Gen III engine and priced around $55,000. Holden’s flagship Adventra will be the Calais-specification LX8, featuring full leather trim and priced around $65,000.
HFV6 versions will not come on stream until late next year, while HSV versions are tipped to be named Avalanche and will be differentiated by body-coloured bumpers, wheelarches and other side cladding instead of Adventra’s dark grey plastics.
As with the Ford Territory, due on sale in June, 2004, third row seating will be optional, and all Adventras will feature as standard an independently opening rear window.
GoAuto sources that have sat in it claim Adventra features only marginally increased ride height and therefore seating, and very little interior differentiation from their respective Commodore wagon donor vehicles. But Adventra will feature longitudinal and lateral incline gauges.
Expect Adventra’s kerb weight to increase over regular Commodore wagons by about 200kg to around 1900kg, while performance of the even heavier Cross8 dual-cab, due on sale in November, is likely to be further blunted by its slightly less powerful 225kW V8.
Holden’s AWD strategy takes shape
By TERRY MARTIN
DESPITE negotiating abroad for small, medium and full-sized four-wheel drive wagons, Holden masterminds are working towards achieving 30,000 annual sales of its own Australian-built all-wheel drive cars well before the decade is out.
How will it get there?
Holden’s Cross Trac full-time four-wheel drive system makes its debut on the Adventra station wagon in October, following in November with the Crewman Cross8.
Until the arrival of the all-new HFV6 engine late in 2004, Cross Trac is being restricted to a 5.7-litre V8 engine mated to a four-speed automatic.
But then cometh the great flood.
We’ll see Cross Trac on V6-powered versions of Adventra, Crewman, One Tonner and Ute – all in automatic form - and the light commercials also with manual transmission.
Holden has also confirmed that at least one passenger car will gain Cross Trac on its current V-car platform – perhaps a limited-edition AWD Monaro coupe, a swansong for two-door coupe before being retired, while production centres on the new generation VE Commodore sedan, wagon and cross-over variants in 2005/6.
Holden Special Vehicles will do something similar and is believed to be showing its hand with a concept car at the Sydney motor show in October. While the performance arm has shelved a rear-drive One Tonner for the time being, HSV is also certain to sell AWD versions of both Adventra and Crewman. Both could be sold under the Avalanche model name.
Resting on an-all new modular platform, VE Commodore will herald a range of AWD passenger cars in mainstream, performance and cross-over divisions.
A higher-roofed Adventra, featuring more flexible seating arrangements, to be sold alongside the current estate-based vehicle, is expected to be one of the first buds from this new platform.
"I think there’s probably room for both and whoever can tackle that problem of satisfying both markets will turn out to be the winner," said Holden executive director engineering and design, Tony Hyde.
Later in the decade, other niche vehicles – a Commodore-based hatchback, a smaller sedan, a sports estate and new generation coupe, for example – will materialise and all-wheel drive will figure in most, if not all.
Amid all this, and depending on whether enough people want it, the AWD range will be bolstered with a manual V8 and manual/auto diesel engine. It is known that Holden is currently evaluating several oil burners, although Mr Hyde said we would not see such an engine in production before 2007.
AWD LPG? There’s no reason to think that won’t happen, too.
"You have to pick and choose where you want to focus your efforts and where you’ll get the best market return and where you’ll satisfy the most customers," Mr Hyde said. "And that’s really what determines how many variants you do in the end as opposed to … what the platform can deliver."
Still, nothing less than 30,000 per annum will do. And with all this lot arriving this decade, there is no reason to think Holden won’t reach that target.
Last edited by crYnOid; Sep 2, 2003 at 03:35 AM.
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Re: Holden, AWD and future cars
Hrmmm......
Okay what I get from this is....
Holden is Axing the Monaro in 05-06...this will let them make a few more GTO's or Commodores if they decide to export them.
The huge thing in this article is.....
Assuming it's a two door....and the car everyone thinks is a Camaro is really a Chevelle.....this could very well be a Camaro
Holden has also confirmed that at least one passenger car will gain Cross Trac on its current V-car platform – perhaps a limited-edition AWD Monaro coupe, a swansong for two-door coupe before being retired, while production centres on the new generation VE Commodore sedan, wagon and cross-over variants in 2005/6.
Holden Special Vehicles will do something similar and is believed to be showing its hand with a concept car at the Sydney motor show in October. While the performance arm has shelved a rear-drive One Tonner for the time being, HSV is also certain to sell AWD versions of both Adventra and Crewman. Both could be sold under the Avalanche model name.
Resting on an-all new modular platform, VE Commodore will herald a range of AWD passenger cars in mainstream, performance and cross-over divisions.
Later in the decade, other niche vehicles – a Commodore-based hatchback, a smaller sedan, a sports estate and new generation coupe, for example – will materialise and all-wheel drive will figure in most, if not all.
Holden Special Vehicles will do something similar and is believed to be showing its hand with a concept car at the Sydney motor show in October. While the performance arm has shelved a rear-drive One Tonner for the time being, HSV is also certain to sell AWD versions of both Adventra and Crewman. Both could be sold under the Avalanche model name.
Resting on an-all new modular platform, VE Commodore will herald a range of AWD passenger cars in mainstream, performance and cross-over divisions.
Later in the decade, other niche vehicles – a Commodore-based hatchback, a smaller sedan, a sports estate and new generation coupe, for example – will materialise and all-wheel drive will figure in most, if not all.
Holden is Axing the Monaro in 05-06...this will let them make a few more GTO's or Commodores if they decide to export them.
The huge thing in this article is.....
a Commodore-based hatchback,
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Posts: 384
From: Australia
I completely disagree with you formula79 
I think you will find that a commodore based hatchback will be similar to the SSX concept from a year ago. And "and new generation coupe" I would take to mean the next gen Monaro.
The thing is that I have read articles that have said that Holden will produce a production version of the SSX concept, but only when the VE platform arrives. I would also expect a new monaro from Holden. The thing that supprised me was "a smaller sedan, a sports estate ". Smaller sedan would be the 'Torana' that was said to have been considered by Holden but put on the backburner. It might be getting moved back up. And I have no idea what "sports estate " could be.
I think you will find that a commodore based hatchback will be similar to the SSX concept from a year ago. And "and new generation coupe" I would take to mean the next gen Monaro.The thing is that I have read articles that have said that Holden will produce a production version of the SSX concept, but only when the VE platform arrives. I would also expect a new monaro from Holden. The thing that supprised me was "a smaller sedan, a sports estate ". Smaller sedan would be the 'Torana' that was said to have been considered by Holden but put on the backburner. It might be getting moved back up. And I have no idea what "sports estate " could be.
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i think that awd is a very good thing , and its about time holden entered that scene, especially if they make performace versions and not just cross-over style vehicles (although they defnately have their market).
still, there should always be a plain rwd versions of the performace cars/coupes for those who want them, but i don't know how many would opt for that if the equivalent awd car out drags and out handles its rwd counterpart(even with the extra weight).
this is the closest image that i could find to what the awd v-car drivetrain might look like- http://www.webwombat.com.au/motoring...s/8octhol3.JPG
and in regards to a smaller coupe that could be a torana, yes that smaller pltform could also provide for a camaro ( with different skin natrually)
still, there should always be a plain rwd versions of the performace cars/coupes for those who want them, but i don't know how many would opt for that if the equivalent awd car out drags and out handles its rwd counterpart(even with the extra weight).
this is the closest image that i could find to what the awd v-car drivetrain might look like- http://www.webwombat.com.au/motoring...s/8octhol3.JPG
and in regards to a smaller coupe that could be a torana, yes that smaller pltform could also provide for a camaro ( with different skin natrually)
Last edited by Ude-lose; Sep 2, 2003 at 07:10 AM.
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Posts: 358
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to me it seems that holden is pulling the strings on any upcoming rwd GM cars, excluding caddy which are more $$$...
so if the camaro reappears as a rwd v8, you can bet holden will have a hand in it, heck even europe want a sniff at the VE platform, for the opel/vaux lineups.
so if the camaro reappears as a rwd v8, you can bet holden will have a hand in it, heck even europe want a sniff at the VE platform, for the opel/vaux lineups.
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Posts: 269
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Godd stuff crynoid.
There has been talk on this board many many many times about when the damn camaro is coming back.
I found it interesting that the monaro is going to be axed in 05/06, about the same time that the camaro is believed by many on this board to come back.
The ssx concept was awesome and definately needs to built HERE IN AMERICA!
If a holden vehicle is going to get an awd system, What american car do you think would get it too?
I don't think that a camaro would get it. I remember that the pontiac g6 was suppsed to have awd. I could be wrong. Maybe the next gen gto will get it.
There has been talk on this board many many many times about when the damn camaro is coming back.
I found it interesting that the monaro is going to be axed in 05/06, about the same time that the camaro is believed by many on this board to come back.
The ssx concept was awesome and definately needs to built HERE IN AMERICA!
If a holden vehicle is going to get an awd system, What american car do you think would get it too?
I don't think that a camaro would get it. I remember that the pontiac g6 was suppsed to have awd. I could be wrong. Maybe the next gen gto will get it.
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so if they say the Monaro is Axed in 2005/06, then that would mean the next gen Gto, built in the US, would have to be coming out about that time since it's the same car. I know we heared 06 for the new gto, but 05 seems a little too earily
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Originally posted by Ude-lose
i think that awd is a very good thing
i think that awd is a very good thing
still, there should always be a plain rwd versions of the performace cars/coupes for those who want them, but i don't know how many would opt for that if the equivalent awd car out drags and out handles its rwd counterpart(even with the extra weight).
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Re: Re: Holden, AWD and future cars
Originally posted by formula79
few more GTO's or Commodores if they decide to export them.
The huge thing in this article is.....
Assuming it's a two door....and the car everyone thinks is a Camaro is really a Chevelle.....this could very well be a Camaro
few more GTO's or Commodores if they decide to export them.
The huge thing in this article is.....
Assuming it's a two door....and the car everyone thinks is a Camaro is really a Chevelle.....this could very well be a Camaro
So if the Monaro is getting axed, does that mean it did not sell well?
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Re: Re: Re: Holden, AWD and future cars
Originally posted by SNEAKY NEIL
That's what I got out of that as well.
So if the Monaro is getting axed, does that mean it did not sell well?
That's what I got out of that as well.
So if the Monaro is getting axed, does that mean it did not sell well?
so far about 2000 cars ytd, compaired to 50,000 for the Commodore
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From: Melb, Aust
Monaro was always made in very small numbers, and was always going to have a limited lifespan. The new 2004 GTO has infact kept it going longer then Holden originaly planned.
I wouldn't be suprised if it resurfaces in the VE platform, after the sedan versions have been out for year or so..
I wouldn't be suprised if it resurfaces in the VE platform, after the sedan versions have been out for year or so..
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Geez guys - you left out the interesting article ... the tech specs on the new AWD system!!!
By BRUCE NEWTON
HOLDEN has revealed technical details of the electronic traction control-based all-wheel drive system that will underpin a swathe of new vehicles, starting with the Adventra cross-over wagon that goes on sale October 17.
Called Cross Trac, the system has taken more than three years and $50 million to develop, while the total program cost of the Adventra and the Cross8 four-wheel drive Crewman that follows soon after it, is $125 million. Adventra will beat Ford Australia’s first cross-over, the Territory, to market by around nine months. The $500 million project is tipped to have a mechanical AWD system. Cross Trac has been designed to underpin performance-oriented road cars as well as cross-overs and commercial vehicles.
Some of the technology will also apply to locallybuilt rear-wheel drive Holdens. Cross Trac software is based on a system developed for the General Motors Hummer H2 program and has been modified for use in Australia. It is a permanent system which transfers torque 62 per cent to the rear wheels and 38 per cent to the front wheels. It does not include low range.
New hardware includes an adaptor housing, three-gear transfer case, front propshaft, front driveshafts and front and centre open diffs. Of these new bits, only the adaptor housing is not manufactured by Holden.
The engine cradle, beefier front suspension lower control arms, larger front brake rotors and new brake pads, oil pan and internal plumbing and rear propshaft are all new as well.
Modifications have been made to the steering rack with revised valving, while the rear axle crossmember has been substantially revised. For the moment, Cross Trac is combined only with the
5.7-litre Gen III V8 engine and 460LE GM automatic transmission. It will be made available with the new HFV6 engine after it comes on line next year. Cross Trac employs Automatic Brake Differential
(ABD) software to control wheelspin under acceleration and Electronic Brakeforce Distribution (EBD), that works in conjunction with the ABS and Cornering Braking Control (CBC) to provide maximum braking force.
Holden says it had the family driver in mind when it came to designing Adventra, eschewing true mountain goat ability so
that it drove in a very similar fashion to the rear-wheel drive
Commodore wagon it is based on.
“It was to be an integrated V8 vehicle that would operate seamlessly, as far as the driver was concerned, in a very predictable and controlled manner,” said Cross Trac engineering program manager Grant Jamieson. “The mechanical bias we therefore selected to produce the required definitive Holden vehicle character was rear-wheel drive, power oversteer.”
Mr Jamieson revealed the Adventra has a minimum 205mm ground clearance and minimum 1940kg kerb weight. An extra 20mm suspension travel has been added at the front and 16mm at the rear compared to the standard wagon.
HOLDEN has revealed technical details of the electronic traction control-based all-wheel drive system that will underpin a swathe of new vehicles, starting with the Adventra cross-over wagon that goes on sale October 17.
Called Cross Trac, the system has taken more than three years and $50 million to develop, while the total program cost of the Adventra and the Cross8 four-wheel drive Crewman that follows soon after it, is $125 million. Adventra will beat Ford Australia’s first cross-over, the Territory, to market by around nine months. The $500 million project is tipped to have a mechanical AWD system. Cross Trac has been designed to underpin performance-oriented road cars as well as cross-overs and commercial vehicles.
Some of the technology will also apply to locallybuilt rear-wheel drive Holdens. Cross Trac software is based on a system developed for the General Motors Hummer H2 program and has been modified for use in Australia. It is a permanent system which transfers torque 62 per cent to the rear wheels and 38 per cent to the front wheels. It does not include low range.
New hardware includes an adaptor housing, three-gear transfer case, front propshaft, front driveshafts and front and centre open diffs. Of these new bits, only the adaptor housing is not manufactured by Holden.
The engine cradle, beefier front suspension lower control arms, larger front brake rotors and new brake pads, oil pan and internal plumbing and rear propshaft are all new as well.
Modifications have been made to the steering rack with revised valving, while the rear axle crossmember has been substantially revised. For the moment, Cross Trac is combined only with the
5.7-litre Gen III V8 engine and 460LE GM automatic transmission. It will be made available with the new HFV6 engine after it comes on line next year. Cross Trac employs Automatic Brake Differential
(ABD) software to control wheelspin under acceleration and Electronic Brakeforce Distribution (EBD), that works in conjunction with the ABS and Cornering Braking Control (CBC) to provide maximum braking force.
Holden says it had the family driver in mind when it came to designing Adventra, eschewing true mountain goat ability so
that it drove in a very similar fashion to the rear-wheel drive
Commodore wagon it is based on.
“It was to be an integrated V8 vehicle that would operate seamlessly, as far as the driver was concerned, in a very predictable and controlled manner,” said Cross Trac engineering program manager Grant Jamieson. “The mechanical bias we therefore selected to produce the required definitive Holden vehicle character was rear-wheel drive, power oversteer.”
Mr Jamieson revealed the Adventra has a minimum 205mm ground clearance and minimum 1940kg kerb weight. An extra 20mm suspension travel has been added at the front and 16mm at the rear compared to the standard wagon.
Last edited by Decromin; Sep 2, 2003 at 08:22 PM.
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more:
European comparison
ADVENTRA and the Cross Trac system were compared against a number of European all-wheel drive wagons, including the BMW X5 and Audi Allroad, and Holden argues that local software tuning gives its product a distinct advantage.
“The ingenuity of the Cross Trac system is in the detail, particularly in the way it has been calibrated to cope with deformable road surfaces, such as sand, gravel and loose dirt, that are typically encountered in Australia,” Mr Jamieson said.
“Sixty-five per cent of our roads are unmade, whereas in Europe they’re overwhelmingly bitumen and often wet and icy. Cars react very differently on dirt-based tracks than they do on hard, wet, surfaces.”
Unlike most AWD systems, Cross Trac does not cut engine output when wheel slip is encountered, enabling it to run full engine torque when needed, such as in sand.
ADVENTRA and the Cross Trac system were compared against a number of European all-wheel drive wagons, including the BMW X5 and Audi Allroad, and Holden argues that local software tuning gives its product a distinct advantage.
“The ingenuity of the Cross Trac system is in the detail, particularly in the way it has been calibrated to cope with deformable road surfaces, such as sand, gravel and loose dirt, that are typically encountered in Australia,” Mr Jamieson said.
“Sixty-five per cent of our roads are unmade, whereas in Europe they’re overwhelmingly bitumen and often wet and icy. Cars react very differently on dirt-based tracks than they do on hard, wet, surfaces.”
Unlike most AWD systems, Cross Trac does not cut engine output when wheel slip is encountered, enabling it to run full engine torque when needed, such as in sand.
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