I used to work at a place that hard pre-2002 Dodge Rams with the Diesel and that was one of the loudest engine I had ever heard in a pickup. I hope the new ones are quieter.

Personally I'd go with a new GM Duramax 6.6L w/ 650ft.-lb. of torque. Mostly because I like GM trucks and the Duramax is the most powerful and fuel efficent.

 

I only have an anecdotal story.. I drove by this small landscaping place.. and parked out they started out with 2 white chevy's, 2 white fords, and 2 white dodges.. After about 3 years, I notice they were all Chevy's.. Who knows, maybe they just got a killer deal on the the Chevy's..

I notice all the towing trucks are Ford's around my area.. I even talked to one, when I had to get my Camaro towed.. heh.. He loves GM cars, but for trucks, he's a Ford guy..

 

Leave me alone, I had just gotten up when I made that post.

After taking some time, the '07 Ram is suppose to be quiter, have a 6.7 Cummins, and have a Aisen 6spd. Some suspect that it will get the upcoming 68re tranny though. Also, there is a redesign for '08. Thats all I could find off Allpar right now.

Looks like Chrysler is looking to one up Toyota and everyone else.

I for one think this is one market that Toyota is going to learn about loyality. I'm looking for their entry to go about as well as Hondas Ridgeline entry did.

 

The reason people pick the Ford as a work vehicle is because it is cheaper...

Most people will admit the Chevy is better... but its usually $10,000 more..

 

Don't discount Ford's toughness and work capability though... people who drive work trucks (especially ones that don't belong to them) usually beat the pizz out of them. Fords superduty trucks are phenominally well-built.

If ANY product used in industry does not perform well, it will typically be found-out and it will die in short order.

As for a comment about Toyota learning what loyalty is... trust me, they KNOW what it is. People flock by the droves to buy Camry's because their Corolla was flawless, and they never even think about an Impala or Fusion.
They know loyalty, and they know how to break it too.

Ford and GM better JUMP on the offensive, and kick 'em while they are down... keep 'em down, and don't even think of letting them up for air. They turned their back on the cars in the 1980's thinking everyone would be driving SUVs by now, and Toyota took the car market home because of it. Neither Ford or Gm can afford 1 more mistake like that.

 

I have been aware of Ford's issues with the new Powerstroke 6.0 from the beginning. I thought it was a mistake to introduce the engine so early after development, and it has turned out to be so. The 6.0 is really a great engine - when everything is right. It is smoother and quieter than the other 2, with the Duramax running a close second and the Cummins 3rd. Trannys are a toss-up between Ford's new units and the Allison units in the GM. Dodge has a TERRIBLE transmission issue, OD falls out frequently.

The fuel delivery system in the new 6.0 (where the article speaks of the oil/electric injector system) is actually not new or specific to this engine. The older (and reliable as hell) 7.3 had the same system. I have posted here before that my 7.3 uses crankcase oil to activate the injectors, and when the oil becomes loaded with soot and starts to break down, the engine runs rougher because injectors begin to act up, not getting full actuation and not providing a full fuel charge. Change the oil and filter, and it smooths right back out. The first thing I learned about maintaining my superduty was that you WILL NOT cheat on oil and filter changes.

Now on the other hand, I have never been in anything that pulls as hard as this truck. Boats, cars, tractors, hay, rocks, you name it - these trucks move loads like nothing else. I average 20mpg in mine over 6 years period. I brought home a King Cobra, extra engine, 2 trannies, and a bed full of parts from Indianapolis IN (total rolling wieght of about 14-15,000 lbs), came throught the Kentucky and Tennessee mountains and down I-40 and it never came out of OVERDRIVE! With the exception of the steepest grades, I ran between 65 and 80mph, and often set cruise control on 70. I averaged 18+mpg on that round trip of 1300 miles. That's simply unreal. I am a true believer of modern diesel power.

Looking back on Ford and IH's change from 7.3 to 6.0 units - it was rushed and should not have happened as it did. They wanted quieter, more refined, and even better economy - which is all good, and they got those items, but they did not have all the bugs worked out of the new system before they commercialized it, and they are paying for it now. Shame really. One thing is for sure, they better get it right ASAP and not risk this type of business approach again, because this is exactly the type of crack in the hull that lets Toyota (or others) sneak in and once they are in, you've had it.

 

This article is exagerated. Every engine has its warranty problems.


Not entirely true. There are substantial differences in the 7.3 and 6.0 fuel systems.


Don't forget better emissions. This has been the biggest driver in diesel development recently and in the near future.


Oh, by the way, it hasn't been IH since the 80's when they sold off the tractor side of the business. Case now owns the name "IH". The parent company is "Navistar", but conducts business as "International Truck and Engine".

Randy

 

Just FYI, Ford fell in percentage the same amount GM Grew. Dodge stayed the same. I used to work for D-Max. I got to see sales charts weekly.

 

Agreed - I didn't mean to imply they are exactly the same, but after I read your post, I see that that is what I ended up typing anyways.
So much for typing while eating breakfast and chatting with a co-worker!




You are correct on all counts. I remember the original 7.3 when Ford started using them in the late 80's. They replaced the old Ford-built 6.9 diesel, which was not a bad engine itself, but it was not turbocharged and it took a mile to get it rolling with a load. I drove an '86 F250SD 4x4 with the 6.9 for several years.

Navistar was showing their backside to Ford for a while in the late 1990s, thinking they had the market locked and making demands on Ford. That was quickly nulled when Isuzu, Cummins, and others came to play, and Chevy announced their Duramax units was coming.

Personally, I think the original diesel designs from the old International Harvester days of tractor-use and large utility trucks were the best groundwork for the early units, and the company was able to ride on those laurels for a long time. New competition has forced them to go back and develop new technology, and through the restructuring, lost talent, and changes, they lost the people who were innovators and experienced. Navistar is still a good company with good potential, but they need to fix their loose ends quickly or they will fall fast.

 

I had heard that the GM share was taken from almost all from Dodge.

 

Nope. Cummins is one hell of a diesel. It's the workhorse of the group. The Duramax is just really super quiet (as far as diesel's go). They're quiet because of the way the injectors spray gas. The injectors create puffs of gas multiple times instead of a squirt.

 

The current Cummins is just as quiet if not slightly quieter than the Duramax. They both use the same common rail injection system supplied by Bosch. Ford's new 6.4 diesel for 2007 will also finally obtain a common rail injection system of it's own.

The multiple injection event is known as pilot injection. http://www.duramaxdiesel.com/02_bosch/sub03.htm

I believe the now current LBZ Duramax 360HP/650TQ received a revised fuel system that upped the rail pressure and now incorporates multiple pilot events before the main fuel spray. The end result is a yet quieter diesel yet.

 

FYI - you can have multiple injection events without having pilot injection. Pilot injection just means injection prior to the main injection event.

 

That first article mentioned the success of the Duramax and how it proves that people will buy Japanese in this segment. While it is true that the Duramax was co-developed with Isuzu (a GM-owned division) I don't believe it was widely advertised, and I doubt the majority of buyers even knew this. So I think it's a bit of a stretch to say "if people are willing to buy an HD Silverado with a partially-Japanese developed engine, people will buy an HD Toyota."

Detroit Diesel will not be in the passenger car market anytime soon. My friend is an engineer there....the smallest engine they currently produce is for heavy equipment, luxury boats, etc. Lending their expertise to a new HD truck diesel for Dodge might be an option, but from what I hear DD is making so much money and is so busy right now there probably wouldn't be anyone they could spare on the project.

I've heard about the Powerstroke problems. Ford's really taken a hit on those. GM has done a nice job pumping up the power on the Duramax to further entice disgruntled Ford buyers. I remember when the Dmax was introduced a few years ago, 520 ft/lbs of torque seemed like enough to pull your house off its foundation. What's it up to now, 650? Bringing in the Alison was a great move too. It's a very highly respected brand that probably won just as many people over as the Dmax itself did.

 

Wasn't that the division that GM practically gave away because they ran it into the ground and couldn't figure out how to make money with it . That should give us all warm fuzzies about GM's future .