Toyota.

http://www.detnews.com/2003/autosins...b01-317617.htm

 

Honestly, that's no surprise here. They have both the size and the efficiency to generate huge numbers.

 

One step closer to taking over the world...

 

I'm not surprised either.. Thats why people are anxiuos to see what Toyota is going to do in NASCAR.. They have tons of money, lots of smart people, and the desire to dominate..

 

All Toyota has to do is decide what to color their decal and come up with an Iron block OHC V8 (chump work after making DOHC Lexus/Toyota powerplants), then pay for a decent team. Everything else is standardized and made by the same few shops.

Remember, this is NASCAR we're talking about.

 

Are they being allow to run an OHC engine, or was that a typo?

 

Toyota big suprise! Wonder whats GM profits would have been w/o incentives.... guess they wouldn't have sold as many vehicles and Toyota would've sold more!

I remember when I was at GM there were rumors that in 2001-2003 Toyota would have enough cash to buy 51% of GM stock since its value was in free-fall. If the stocks stayed on the decline and Toyota kept making cash hand over fist! That used to scare the old timers there to no end....
That fact that Toyota potentially could in a few years is scary enough for me!

 

I doubt it, I can here Chevy, Ford and Dodge crying foul right now, or should I say Gordon, Jarrett and Wallace!

IF Toyota could bring NASCAR into the 90's with fuel injection and OHC motors then maybe I would root for them.

Fat chance NASCAR is more stubborn then Toyota is bullish!

 

If that ever happened, I would not buy another GM product, just as I will not buy a DCX product for the same reason.

 

I don't think it is "chump" work just because they've done dohc engines. It isn't "harder" to do one over the other. It's not like Toyota's engineers are smarter because they can "figure out" an ohc engine while GM can't, or something. The trick is to be able to optimize the particular design. And that is why not having done ohv engines will make it harder for them to start from scratch. The engineering that goes into cylinder head design (angle, speed, and swirl/tumble motion at which the air enters the cylinder) is different between the two types.

I'm not saying that Toyota won't do well; as stated above, they have really big wads of cash to throw at it, so sooner or later they'll figure it out. But go ask an F1 engine builder to design a top fuel engine. Sure, the F1 engines are "higher" tech, but each one is so specialized that it takes a lot of experience to fully optimize the design under the given constraints. This is why engine builders in NASCAR can get different horsepower out of the same displacement engines. "Standardized" only applies to a point. That sort of levels the playing field, but to eke out those extra few horsepower (which makes a big difference) takes knowledge of the specific engine you are working on. BTW, I'm not a NASCAR junkie in the slightest, but I think all racing is cool in one way or another. My point is that building really refined and smooth (though not immensely powerful) dohc V8 production engines, or even high tech Indy and F1 engines, doesn't mean you will be great at pushrod small block engines... (again, Toyota's deep pockets will help here - money lets you bring in consultants or hire experts from other companies!).

 

I changed my sig about 5 months ago.

I also posted (back in the spring sometime) a huge rant about what the UAW/CAW has done for us in the last 20 years, and how the imports are taking over EVERYTHING - not just cars. I ranted about how even import cars built in the US are still stealing jobs and money from our domestic economy, despite hiring a couple hundred US-workers (mostly in the south where all us rednecks are dumb, uneducated, and will work for $10 / hour complaint-free ). I stated in that rant that Toyota had enough CASH to buy GM or Ford, not 50% or 51% - I'm talking all outstanding shares. All the figures were in my post and links to support articles too. If anyone is interested but missed it - do a search... I'm not typing it all again, sorry.

My point is, this is not new news, it's just the same situation getting ever worse.

It disturbs me to great depth too, as our youger generations have NO IDEA what true patriotism is all about. No, NONE. You think we saw "patriotism" for a few months after 9/11? That was NOTHING compare to the scrap drives for rubber, sugar, and metals during WW-II. My mom collected everything for scrap drives as a kid. They made all sorts of things from linens to cards for our troops. You volunteered weekends and afternoons to work - in factories - at no pay - to make weapons, vehicles, planes, clothes, boots... you name it. Ford converted his whole Dearborn plant to make PLANES for the war - at cost. And all this went on for 4 years guys, 4-years! So I say with pure confidence that Gen-X'ers, Y's, and Tech-babies indeed have NO IDEA what true patriotism is like, having never lived through such a crisis. Plopping a flag-magnet on the back of your car is great, but that alone does not constitute "patriotism" - far from it.

The internet and "globalism" don't help promote domestic pride either. In fact, we're tought to "break-down barriers" and to "work with other diverse factions". Today's youth would just as soon buy a Toyota as a Chevy - no difference whatsoever to their conscience.
Believe me, you would not have bought a Toyota in 1945 or you'd have been lynched.
You wouldn't have bought one in the 50's because they were sub-par (until Demming and our US-educators went over there and tought the Japanese about quality and the process of continuous improvement - and yes Dorothy, those were American concepts).
You might have bought one in the 60's for a cheap novelty/item of discussion, but they were hard to work on and parts were not available.
You could have bought one in the 70's because they were still tiny and fuel efficient - both important during the gas crunch - but even then, NOBODY ever thought that an import company would come close to dethroning the domestic leaders of the empire of automobiles.
You definitely bought a pot-full of them in the '80's as an internal revolt to our domestic maker's persuit of "planned obsolescence". We didn't want cars that were marginally-built to be "disposable" after 3.5 years. What we actually did was not to "fix" our domestic makers' problems, but throw fuel on the import fires.
You could buy a record number of imports from anywhere in the world in the 90's - from the infamous Yugo to Benz to BMW to Infiniti to Hyundai and Daewoo. Again, we may have gotten "our money's worth" right then as a buyer, but what about the US jobs lost at GM, Ford, and Chrysler?

Then we see Chrysler bought out by a foreign car maker - what a first. The US, economic powerhouse of the world, home to the automobile itself, and the economy largely driven by automakers was all set on it's heels - as an "outsider" came in and took one of our own. The world didn't think the big three would ever be overtaken, but now one was gone. Hello... wake-up call...

It should be painfully obvious by now that our remaining 2 are VERY capable of being overthrown. And with money generated from sales right here in our own country no less - our money!!!

To me, personally, GM and Ford both are now making cars that are equal or SUPERIOR in quality and craftsmanship to any import. There are 2 problems still killing them however...
1)They (domestic manufacturers) are obligated to pay exhorbitant salaries, benefits, and costs to employ labor. (On a separate rant, I have already stated my position on unions - I feel that they are responsible for their own slow deaths now. Times have changed since the 1920's, and so should they.) These costs are being passed on to the buyers in huge quantities, and these costs bring no additional value to the vehicle you are buying.
2)The US makers will not sell a product (even after the actual costs are included) at a FAIR AND DECENT PRICE. They want to sell it for what the market will bear. Why must Ford get a 50% margin on every Explorer sold?!?! As an investor, do you pass on every investment opportunity unless it has a guaranteed 50% return? Do like the imports and be humble... be happy selling 3 units at 15-20% margins and keep your mills running and people working.

Don't even get me started on the rebate/interest thing...
I'm ready to pummel somebody right now.

Of course I am simplifying things greatly, but the points I am trying to make still prevail. If you have any interest in American jobs and our future, you better start looking at what you buy. Just because we have had it made for the last 100 years, there is no guarantee we will remain the superpower we are today. A nation need not be overthrown by force to lose power... economic disparity can be as powerful (or moreso) than a platoon of foriegn soldiers at your door when you can't afford food, shelter, medical care, or essentials. (You'll do anything to get your sick child some medical aid if/when it's needed - trust me.) That's why economic embargos are so effective and common against our foes in the world.

One last point to ponder...
Any of you looked where something is made lately? For a severely disheartening experience, go to Wal-Mart and pick up anything, a CD, a shirt, hunting vest, air chuck, hairbrush... anything... and see where it's made.

OK - rant over, soap box is back in the closet.
Thanks for reading it all to those who did.

Now read my sig again...

 

The Toyota probably has a far higher domestic content than the Chevy. In any case, Toyotas seem to run forever - something most Toyota buyers just take for granted. Toyotas might be ugly, they might have premium pricing but they sure are reliable. You can't go wrong with a Toyota. Period.

If you don't believe me, look at last month's Consumer Reports. Among luxury sedans, only the Lexus LS430 scored "excellent" reliability. Mercedes, BMW and Cadillac scored "poor."

Of course, maybe your devotion to Ford isn't entirely misguided. The Lincoln Towncar scored "average" in reliability. Of course, since there are so few things to go wrong on a Town Car as compared to a Caddy DTS, "average" isn't anything to brag about.

 

Globalism is blurring the lines of everything.. with it competition in a free market can be brutal.

I too am worried about the USA.. Alot of countries are growing at a fast rate.. and consuming more and more products... in certain sectors, it looks like they my surpass America in the future in goods consumed.. They are also grabbing more and more high skilled/educated and high paying jobs thats really cutting to the bone of middle America.. Eventually, things will catch up to them, and the next low cost geo will be targeted... This averaging on the world means a lowering of life for the US... cause we relatively have it pretty good..




Sometimes you wonder, when you buy an American product, thats designed overseas, manufactured overseas with overseas materials, packaged overseas, then sent back to the US to have the final labeling to designate it as a US product..


I'm afraid "middle America" is gonna disappear, and the rich get richer, and the poor get poorer.

 

The good thing is, thats never going to happen. I like to buy "made in America" every day things, probably more than i should now... America is starting to grow out of the production stage and now is entering a new information phase, highly relied on w/ technology. Theres more and more computer jobs available everyday, which the average - poor american has a good chance of being educated for and fulfilling and having a great paying job in comparison to the comparable production job. Colleges are more accessible for poorer people than ever before. We no longer rely heavily on working ourselves into a job, we now educate and network outselves into a job.

But there are still many people in America who have WORKED themselves into a job and are now having it taken away by people overseas, which is a bad thing. We should grow out being a production country progressively. Not have it taken away instantly. This is why I support Americans w/ my $$ when I go to the mall or store and stick to a strict "Don't buy brand new Toyota anything since their trying to take over the world," rule.

 

Purely subjective opinion on your part. I'll credit your response with my open-minded reception, as it was well written and clear.

But I must disagree with you regarding the reliability and longevity. I really don't care a great deal about what Consumer Reports' column claimed. I hear them, and I understand their points. I read their stuff with interest and curiosity for sure. MY point is, I doubt if the trailer-trash mullet-heads have their opinion counted. I doubt if the low-income single mom had time to take part in their survey. I doubt the guy working 10-hour days and going to school at night while driving his 3rd or 4th-hand car had time to fill out the form. Yet these folks are populous and important - as important as I am or anyone else who needs transportation. And I see a helluva lot of 10+ year-old Ford and Chevy's on the road - especially trucks. Do I see 10-15 year old Toyotas... yes, but not nearly as many.

I personally DO have a Ford penchance... That doesn't mean I hate Chevys, I just don't own one. I would buy a Chevy in an instant should the situation arise - no problem. But I swear to you that I will spend twice the price of the car to keep ANY domestic running before I will buy an import - I just feel that strongly about it.

To me, it is just as frustrating that the parts are all sourced outside and put together here. I think the parts should be made here too. BUT, and I mean that solemnly, at least the profits from the sales are staying inside our nation, to be distributed to our stockholders, and applicable to our tax system. When the profits from your import go to the headquarters of Nis-Hon-Toy, those dollars are increasing THEIR FOREIGN GNP, NOT OURS. IT DOES HURT US, despite the face value and lies that most people beleive.

Lastly, please don't tell me about longevity and maintainability and good service. I'll openly challenge any and all comers to top the performance of my vehicles...
'86 Bronco II - mine since new... all repair records... 369,000 miles and still on the original engine, original tranny, original rear-end, all original interior looks like new. I'd drive it to Cali from here today. 4x4 still works perfect. I have been stranded only twice - once due to a failed fuel pump (@ 180k miles) and once due to electronic ignition box died (@ 207k miles). And I get 90,000+ miles on every set of Michelins I put on it too.
'91 Eddie Bauer Explorer - 231,000 trouble free miles, original engine and tranny, original interior, everything works. 19mpg only been in the shop 2 times in the last 5 years (because I didn't have time to service it myself to boot).
'89 LX 5.0 - 191,000 miles and I just busted a Dodge Stealth coming to work Tuesday morning running 120+ on I-40 at 6:30 AM. Exhaust mods and gentle tune, but nothing radical. No rattles, no cracks, and no rips in the interior GT cloth. (I will admit the quarter window moldings look rough, but they don't leak!)
'75 F-150 Trailer Special, 460-4v, C6, loaded, all original, 181,000 miles. Pulls tractors and cars like toys. 9mpg empty or loaded, but all the power you could ever want. Interior still great, and everything works, even the original dual-tank switch and solenoid.
'95 Eddie Bauer Explorer - currently the daily workhorse for the misses and kid... up to 171,000 miles already, with only 1 recent trip to the shop for an EGR control module replacement (I'm too d@mn tight to pay $70 for the tool to put in a $41 module.) Leather interior is like new, all lights an buttons work, GUI display is good, and even the illuminated buttons on the PDLs, PW's, and CC buttons are all working - everything.

I could go on and on... but this isn't the place.
Until my Fords (or future Chevys) demonstrate that they cannot live up to my expectations, I WILL NEVER GRACE THE TITLE OF AN IMPORT WITH MY NAME.

With all due respect, I just hope that all the people driving imports now that will need a job in 20 years don't come to my place for that job, but if they do they BETTER pull up in a domestic car or they can just keep moving on.

Signed,
your creative, insightful, and hyper-patriotic mechanical engineer who is trying his damndest to CREATE jobs for people in this country.