It does look like the Z06 has some real competition now. I was going to say "at its price point"... but hmm. Is the GTR artificially underpriced? I believe once the true HP numbers are out on the GTR, its real street price will be 80-90k at dealers. That puts it up in ZR1 territory... which after all will be its real competition. The ZR1 will lay waste to this car.

 

It'll be interesting to see if you're right about that.

What does that even mean? The price is the price. Nissan has already published the MSRP for the GTR.

They are. GT-Rs are putting down ~475hp to the wheels. Through an AWD system, it's pretty much impossible for that to translate to anything less than 550hp at the flywheel, and probably more like 580.

That's a 12-22k markup. As with any new and novel car, that might be the case at first, but it won't last.

Why would you assume that the ZR1 won't see the same sort of markup that the GTR will? The ZR1's MSRP is predicted to be right around 100k, which is ~30k more than the GTR. Both cars are going to get marked up at first, and probably in a similar manner. Regardless of how much markup we see, a 30k price difference is not the same territory.

 

I wonder who will be the first private owner or aftermarket tuner to buy a wrecked GT-R and swap the engine into a 350Z? I'd be interested to see the results of that - ~550 HP, RWD, and if they can make it work, a real 6-speed manual.

 

It means what it says. True price is what the market will bear. MSRP is a SUGGESTED price, and it is often disregarded in the case of real dealers. I suspect Nissan knew the price would be bid up, and set it that low to be able to make a marketing claim that it was/is less than the Z06.
The POINT there - was the ADVERTISED horsepower. Nissan, again, is playing marketing games with the car. Obviously it's putting out major power to the wheels. How else could a 3820 lb car post those track numbers? But 'Joe Average' is going to pay a lot of attention to the advertised numbers. Again, falls right in with Nissan's "we are magic" marketing ploy.
I disagree. As long as the car's production is constrained (forever) and its big power is there (IE until CAFE and GG taxes catch up with it, maybe also forever), the car will be too big a bargain at the MSRP, and dealers will naturally add markup.
I'm not an expert on exotic car prices. So who knows, maybe the ZR1 will also command a premium. But $100k just seems to 'make sense' for a car of that power and caliber. Big markups on it, just don't make sense IMO. There is a certain 'pricing expectation' in people's minds about sports cars. $70k or so gets you a Z06. $100k, makes the ZR1 a good value. Much above that though, and it will not seem like a 'bargain' (which has been a motivator in the past for Z06 buyers). In contrast, the GTR will seem like 'too much' of a bargain at its MSRP, and will get bid up persistently.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigDarknFast

It means what it says. True price is what the market will bear. MSRP is a SUGGESTED price, and it is often disregarded in the case of real dealers. I suspect Nissan knew the price would be bid up, and set it that low to be able to make a marketing claim that it was/is less than the Z06.

WHAT!? This is ridculous, and you're an idiot if you believe this. I'm 99.9% sure only the dealer will make profit on the amount charged beyond MSRP. Nissan doesn't get a penny for a dealer finding a way to overcharge.

Quote:

The POINT there - was the ADVERTISED horsepower. Nissan, again, is playing marketing games with the car. Obviously it's putting out major power to the wheels. How else could a 3820 lb car post those track numbers? But 'Joe Average' is going to pay a lot of attention to the advertised numbers. Again, falls right in with Nissan's "we are magic" marketing ploy.

Man, you sure are a real conspiracy theorist. This link shows that its really *only* making ~480hp, just like the Porsche 911 TT.

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...ticleId=125172

One of the mag tests even show it only pulls a measily 116mph in the 1/4. This is right in line with 3800+lbs and 480hp.

LS3 vette does the same with ~50hp less, and oops, coincidence, 500lbs less! Oh crap, I just proved once again that the Nissan is not overrated!

Track tests in multiple magazines show that this car can run with, and in some instances, turn lower times, than a Z06. Why can't people just acknowledge that it may actually handle better than a Z06? Why can't people acknowledge that the Z06 suspension is not perfect, thus, doesn't handle perfect, and can be improved upon, resulting in quicker times? The GTR does that. . .and you know what? 10 years from now, it's possible that there'll be another GTR from Nissan, that is heavier, and actually handles better.

Geeez, I thought the Nissan and Import lovers were bad, but I think the GM fanboys are actually worse. On other message boards, Import guys actually give the Z06 props.

Mike
STI owner
Former LS1 owner, and GM fan

 

Greedy dealerships can put whatever price they want on the window. Heck, a million bucks for all it matters. Nissan built the car so it can be sold at this price point (under 70k). What the greedy dealerships charge is out of their control.

I'm sure once production ramps up and used examples hit the public, markups will either come down or disappear all together.

 

Some of these responses are getting silly. The GTR is an impressive car. It MAY even be a slightly better car than the Z06(based purely on track performance). SO WHAT. What these tests tell me is that the cars are within a fraction of a second of each other(acceleration, braking, etc.) and an AWD car handles better on a track(according to these test results). These results do NOTHING to change the underlying premise. American V8 muscle vs. Turbo 6 AWD peformance car. People are going to buy the car that best fulfills their dreams. I honestly do not see much cross shopping between the two makes. People who buy 70K cars are generally not asking which car has the most miniscule performance advantage. They are buying the car that they have idolized or desired for however long it took them to get to the point of being able to afford such a large financial transaction!

One last comment. It is well and good to have loyalty to a mark, just as it is cool to rail against unfair and biased testing procedures. But, to raise juvenille objections based on how delaers may or may not price a car above and beyond the MSRP (and I agree they most likely will), or to say that it is underrated in HP (which I am not sure about) is just assinine. This being said from someone who would hands down take the Z06. However, I also believe in tipping your cap when the competition matchs or one ups you.

 

Knowing Nissan and their followers, I wouldn't doubt seeing that engine crammed in the front of a 240sx sometime soon.

 

I think the GTR will be able to push the corvette team to build an even better corvette. The same way the viper has been doing for years.

 

That about sums it up.

Dan

 

I agree.

Except I'd take the GT-R.



but only in it's second year.

and only after seeing what the aftermarket can do with it.

 

One magazine can't get a good trap speed. Yep, go ahead and draw whatever conclusions you want from that.

As for your dyno video, that's a Mustang dyno. They read lower than DynoJets (which are far more common, and are therefore the source for the kind of numbers we're all familiar with around here). I stand by my statement that the GT-R has no less than 550bhp, and probably closer to 580.

Asinine? It's obvious that the GT-R is underrated. The rating itself has no effect on my opinion of the car or my respect for its performance (and it shouldn't have such an effect on any rational person).

The problem I have is that there are plenty of people who don't realize that some cars have more than the advertised power. They think the rating is factual and unquestionable. They therefore assume that there's something "magic" about the GT-R that makes it outperform these other cars, despite a clear disadvantage in power-to-weight ratio (going by the numbers). I roll my eyes at those people, and I roll my eyes at Nissan's marketing people (or whoever decided to underrate the car) for deliberately confusing their enthusiasts.

 

No, you misunderstood me. I have no idea whether or not the car is underrated, nor do I care. My point is irregardless of it being underrated or not, it is a serious performance car. Making excuses (not you, just in general) that it is underrated makes no difference in the abilities of the car, nor does it invalidate the value/performance of the Z06. They are different means to the same end. Each has it's advantage, each has it's own unique character. The assinine commet is referring to using the fact that the GTR is underrated (again if it is, and I believe it might be) to try and lessen the value/performance of the GTR. Likewise, whether or not the GTR is a loss leader is irrelevant. The car does what it does, for the price that it is, and it is worthy of respect (even if I personally do not care for it).

 

Got it now; thanks for clarifying.

You seriously have no idea? Have you been reading my posts?

It's underrated. Probably by close to 100hp.

 

I for one am not convinced the car is underrated power wise. Based on the 116mph trap the magazine got, and the dyno's that Edmunds conducted, the power looks about inline with what its rated at. With the car having a built in launch control and a sequential transmission, I think it would be hard to blame the driver for only trapping 116. The similarly powered 911 Turbo trapped 5mph faster, weighing ~200lbs less.

Are people gonan claim that the Porsche is underrated as well?

Then the fact that Edmunds got 450 on the dynapack dyno... compared with 480 that some private shop posted online a while back... I'm not sure what the average tolerance is with dynos, but those numbers are within 7% of one another...

When they compared the Mustang dyno numbers to that of a 911 Turbo they got this...


I guess we'll have to wait for more cars to be tested to get more numbers, but I'd be more inclined to believe the GTR was underratedif it was trapping 125mph. 116mph really isnt that fast... a regular C6 Vette could probably drag one on the highway. With the Posche trapping 121, I actually would expect the GTR to be capable of a bit more mph than it did...

I am just not seeing any conclusive evidence that the car is engine is underrated.