Uh, there have been Goats in the 12s to you know. Actually, I bet you didn't know. I would bet GM's crappy torque management is to blame for some of the slow down of the GTO, but I still think the GTO has more than a shot.

Your curb weights are off by the way

GTO : 3725
http://www.edmunds.com/apps/vdpconta...3/pageNumber=6
Charger : 4160
http://www.automobilemag.com/reviews..._charger_srt8/

It was never my intention of saying the GTO was faster. I didn't even bring the damn GTO into this. I still think a GTO would be extremely competitive against an SRT-8 though. My original point was that I don't think a stock Charger could run a 12.56, and I still have my doubts. Apparently the boys over at the Mopar board do as well, because they are calling the car that ran it a freak.

 

That 12.5@111 is possible considering the track is near sea level and with those cool temps in the forty's. At a different track it would probably run 12.9@108. Sounds plausible to me.

 

The curb weight were with a driver and more a comparison between the weight differences which now goes more in my favor of my comparison and that is that the GTO is over 400#'s lighter. I'm not buying the torque mgmt only because the CTS-V does not have it and no one can break into the 12's with it. Like I said in previous posts, there have been 300 SRT8's in the 12.8's and 12.9's bone stock with 2.0-2.1 60ft times and the Charger pulled a 1.8. That would put it close to those numbers, especially with cold Nov. Jersey air, and a track that is very close to sea level.

 

Agreed. I paid the same on my 05 GTO. I test drove a Charger RT before getting my GTO. I pushed them about the pricing... and they said all Chargers with a V8 were selling at sticker. I'd imagine the same to be true (best case, realistically buyers should expect a premium demanded above that) for SRT8's. So yep, HUGE difference in real street prices.

Hmm... what SHOULD I do with the $$$ I saved? How's about some headers, stall kit, tuning... then we'll see how the still-cheaper GTO stacks up

That reminds me of another thing I dig about the GTO. I've had 4gen LT1/LS1 Firebirds for years, and lived with the so-so engine access. Same observation can be made about the SRT8's actually. But WOW the access to the engine is majorly improved on the GTO. You can reach right down in there and wrench on the manifold bolts, spark plugs, whatever you want

 

As you stated earier, this is about the GTO, not the CTS-V, which for whatever reason, dyno low (at least the LS6 version, I don't think I have ever seen an LS2 CTS-V's dyno graph.) Why you persist on bring the CTS-V back into this arguement is beyond me. I would bet my *** off that the 05 CTS-V has the torque management though, considering the Vette's come with it.

Perhaps it was a freak car that ran what it did in perfect conditions, but I bet a well driven Goat would have run its *** off there as well.

 

I can reach right down and wrench on the manifolds of my fbody too, the wrench just needs alot of angles.......

 

SRT-8 pulling 12.56@111 with only a Catback

http://www.challengevideos.com/2005/...05notearsb.wmv

 

Not bad. Is that the car in question? What kind of catback did he have?
Also, do the Chargers/300s/Magnums run a true dual exhaust like our Mustang friends, or are they blessed with a crappier exhaust setup, such as us fbody guys.

 

I'm actually not sure about either questions. I pulled that video from an SVT site.

This dyno is from the same topic. This dyno graph is bone stock

 

Pretty much what I expect. Wonder what it dynoed after the catback.

 

Personally I'm a BIG fan of the new Hemi and especially the 300C and SRT-8. Chrysler have really shown the performance world what muscle cars are about. Bully to Chrysler.

What I have difficulty with is people claiming stock times when in fact, now we hear the car has a cat-back exhaust. So what other mods does it have?

It doesn't take a genius to figure out the GTO LS2 would whip the SRT-8 10 times out of 10 considering its sizeable power to weight advantage... but some people are shifting the goal posts and not comparing stock for stock.

 

You would lose your *** then. No torque mgmt in the 05. I do not beleive any 06's have hit the lots yet. I bring the CTS-V into it becaue it is a 400HP LS motor that is faster than the GTO and I owned one so I can compare the V's performance to the 300's. Also you may want to take a look at this. http://motortrend.com/roadtests/seda...rio/index.html

As for what you can do with the $10k you save with the GTO, You can try to see if you can purchase 20" wheels and tires, Huge Brembo brakes, 25 more HP, a new warranty, a DVD Nav unit, a sunroof, rain sensing wipers, 2 more doors, a ton more cabin space, satellite radio, etc. A base Charger SRT-8 starts at $35k. I in no way want to flame the GTO's performance because I think it is worth the money, but to try to say the SRT vehicles are a rip off compared to it is just wrong.

 

On my way out the house, so I'll make this quick.

1. The SRT-8 is QUICKER than a GTO.

2. The SRT-8 stickers as much as a GTO. Forget about whatever deal you made. Both are going for the same price. I'm very glad some of you saw a GTO in the paper for $19K after incentives, dealer pay back, and an act of God, but real world price is now $35,000. No current incentives.

3. It's a little odd for people here to be passing judgement on SRT8's handling based solely on weight alone. A BMW M5 weighs just over 2 tons, and I don't hear anyone here complaining about it's handling.

4. The SRT8's powerplant is under-rated in horsepower. This is standard practice at Chrysler's SRT division.


I personally would buy the GTO over the SRT8 for only 2 reasons. I prefer coupes, and I prefer a manual tranny. I'm also a big fan of the GTO.

But strictly from a performance and price standpoint, plus looking like something that might eat your first born, the Charger SRT-8 nails the GTO hands down. That's not the car rags showing anti-GM bias, or anti-GTO bias. It's just honesty.... and I'd still honestly buy the GTO.

 

1. How so? Not if it's power/weight ratio is less favourable.
4. Is there any real proof... like both cars dynoed at the same time?

Personally, I'm glad it is underrated as it shows what fun these OHV V8s can be!

 

A speculation . . .

Something to keep in mind about performance numbers is that many modern cars are far more susceptible to weather variations than before. In the bad old days, you'd have one state of tune that would keep the engine from blowing up on the hottest days with the A/C on. Now you can play games with timing that give you quite a bit more power at lower temperatures than you would get by the temp change alone. Also you can look at coolant temperature, and air speed, etc.

What this is all coming down to is that traditional adjustments for weather conditions don't work so well any more, and it could be that an SRT-8 at 45 degrees is faster than an SRT-8 at 80 degrees weather corrected to 45 degrees.

Which would explain the difference between magazine times and owner times at a track in NJ. In the next few months as more people take their cars to dragstrips in fall and winter weather (or as insiders 'fess up), we may have a better idea whether the NJ car is a freak.

By the way, is this ATCO the same track where GMHTP got an early LS-1 Camaro into the 12s? I've read that it's a very fast track.