They should refresh the styling and bring it back with a different name. Properly positioned, the car could sell. Delivering this car to the hoodscoops/musclecar crowd was a misstep.

 

Shhhhh.... logic is generally not allowed.

 

When then? If the GTO is coming, it won't be before the Chevy's. Not in '07. Not in '08. Not in '09.

 

On the topic of the new GTO and GP (whenever they come!), I hope that GM does not adopt the gunslit window style that has become so popular (and which I so dislike). Or if they do, maybe there will be a Buick or a Chevy with reasonable windows!

 

Z284ever, your comments dovetail with what Roger Sears (RLSEdition, the former manager of the next-gen GTO project, now retired from GM) has said all along over on LS1GTO - if there is a next-gen GTO, it won't be until 2010 or so. Seems Pontiac's also in more of a hurry to get a large RWD sedan than a coupe right now... the original plan was for the VE Commodore to get a new nose and become the G8 in 2008/2009 (VE was already late from its intended 2007 premiere)... that may still be the plan (GMX282?).

 

Based on what GuionM said, I sure hope that the GTO or whatever Pontiac has based on this sedan isn't just a rebadge of the Chevy sedan, like has been done all these years. I hope Pontiac will have the ability to differentiate it enough so that it actually stands out and apart from the Chevy sedan. If not, then I don't know what I'll think of GM then.

 

How was it great? It sold like ****.

 

When is Camaro coming?

 

That is 100% correct.... about 12 months ago.

Buick & Pontiac had their plans ramsacked when GM-NA decided against going with a version of Holden's Zeta. Their cars were infact scheduled for CY 2007 as 2008 cars.

However, alot has changed in the past year.

Putting this as delicately as I can with all due respect to the former GTO manager (who had his project handed to Holden), what makes more sense to you?

a) Someone not in the loop saying that Pontiac is going to run a Grand Prix unchanged for 10 plus years, and going to leave a hole in their line up till sometime next decade? Or....

b) Pontiac will adjust their plans to take advantage of a RWD chassis (both a coupe and a sedan) that's likely to come out no later than the 2009 model year.


The VE is going to be a relatively short lived vehicle. GM is going to standardize their RWD architecture just like they are going to standardize Espilon via Espilon 2. Pontiac ISN'T going to wait around to get a chassis that's likely going to the graveyard the start of next decade. Especially if it's planned to be replaced with what we're soon going to be using here. See where the logic of GM's new RWD car plans gels?

Also, with Holden doing GTO and some of the finishing work on this new RWD chassis, some people simply aren't going to be in the loop as much as they think or say they are. Pontiac has been highly intrested in being a part of the new chassis, and the Camaro isn't going to be an orphan.

Finally, a 1 year delay in RWD plans ISN'T going to equal a 3 year delay in introduction. GM's back is against the wall, and this ISN'T business as usual.

The Cobalt and G6/Malibu have Opel and Vauxhall to distribute the cost of Delta and Espilon. Chevrolet is going to carry this structure alone?

Nevr, ever, ever, ever, ever, never go by a single source unless they actually sit in on meeting.... and even then, colaborate with someone. I've been burned more than a few times being in awe over an insider who has obsolete information and taking their word as gospel.

 

1st of all, sales figures do not have to be the dictating factor of whether a car is good or not.... secondly, it didn't "sell like ****".... we've been over this a billion times here, and it seems so many people don't want to grip reality when it comes to GTO sales figures....

Look up Mustang Cobra and Mustang Mach 1 sales numbers, compare them to GTO sales numbers, and get back to us...

 

Not to mention, Holden predicated the development of Monaro on selling 5k per year of them for 3 years.

GM has so far imported over 16k 2004's (about 69 unsold) and 11k 2005's (maybe 2k unsold). That's 27k cars, and we don't know how many 2006's will be made. Then, there are the Vauxhall VXR and GMME Lumina SS models.

Needless to say, if Holden could make money selling 5k Monaros/year, they made a lot of money making and selling to GMNA the GTO.

Let's not forget the GTO was taken off the "Employee Price for Everyone" this summer because there were no cars to be had... proof that the car sold as it got closer to the magic 30k price point. Are you listening, GM?

 

As it turns out....VE/Zeta.....now is the standardization. It's like you almost need a score card.

Also, I really don't think a GTO will be released concurrently with Camaro. Not unless it comes back as a Camaro with an arrowhead on it's grill......

 

No kidding!

So let me get this straight.

First we have the VE Commodore later to be called Zeta which is the v-car chassis very very heavily modified and with new front and rear suspension. This is to be used for all large RWD cars around the world (except Sigma in NA).

Second we have GMNA deciding that Zeta would not be cost effective for NA. Sigma lite is proposed (Sigma with Zeta bits) which is chevs baby. Sigma lite is only for NA, Zeta to continue being the RWD world car. Buick and Pontiac had their eggs in the Zeta basket and they just got squashed.

Third we have a report (that one is guionM's from memory ) that Zeta will be standardised to Sigma Lite, which is half zeta anyway, and zeta will only last approx. 5 year before being changed to Sigma lite.

Fourth we have a report from Z284ever that zeta will be the standard, not simga lite, which means I have no idea wtf is happening.....

So will GMNA now being going back to Zeta?

ahhhh RWD in the world of GM, so fscked up:blah:

 

[In my best voice from the guy from Mary Poppins]: I think you've got it.........

And yes, we're back to Zeta.

Also, to our friends down under, keep your eyes and ears open. I think for the next 12-18 months, there will be more happening down there than up here.

 

Well in the press recently down here there has been talk that the next commodore wagon and ute are all but approved along with the already approved long and short wheel base VE commodore. There has also been talk of an aussie built Monaro on the zeta chassis. So all this talk was making me wonder how guionM's info could possibly be right. If Holden were to be close to getting the next ute/wagon approved they would not build them on a chassis with only a few years remaining. Holden just don't have the volume to recover the costs. Holden couldn't possibly go and build only sedans for 5 year until everything was standardised. Even going from VE/Zeta to Sigma lite in 5 years for Holden is really pushing it as they probably wouldn't have the volume to recover the massive cost of Zeta in that time.

So, that bring me to another question. If the 5th gen camaro was to be closely related to the GTO, as was being suggested on this forum, is that still the case? Or is it just that Holden are not going to do a Monaro from a base of the Commodore, and are this time doing it from scratch on zeta?