GTO a sales flop?
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 3,647
From: At car shows and cruise nights!
Of course it's not selling, and they aren't gonna sell the projected number for this year either. At this rate it's impossible. There isn't enough interest. I still haven't seen one at a cruise night or on the street. I've actually seen SSR's though! There was a GTO at one car show, but it was brought from a sponsoring dealer trying to sell it. No one was interested, and any comments you did hear far away about it were critisizms.
The car needs aggressive musclecar looks, it needs to say GTO to people, if not, what's the sense? People have been complaining about the looks since the first day. No scoops, outlets on one side, bland sides, plain bumpers, boring rims/tires. People that are interested and in the know will wait for the 05 and the coming improvements. When I checked them out at a dealer they were going for $34,000. Alot IMO, but not as much as other people report.
The car needs aggressive musclecar looks, it needs to say GTO to people, if not, what's the sense? People have been complaining about the looks since the first day. No scoops, outlets on one side, bland sides, plain bumpers, boring rims/tires. People that are interested and in the know will wait for the 05 and the coming improvements. When I checked them out at a dealer they were going for $34,000. Alot IMO, but not as much as other people report.
Thread Starter
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 16,176
From: Chicagoland IL
Originally posted by FlyBono24
Just like Z284ever said, when I look at the GTO I see a $25,000-30,000 automobile, and the $30k one better as hell come with all the options.
Just like Z284ever said, when I look at the GTO I see a $25,000-30,000 automobile, and the $30k one better as hell come with all the options.
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,029
I have to be honest, I just don't see the LS2 by itself making much if any difference in helping the sales of the GTO when it comes out. More HP didn't help Camaro or Firebird and I don't think it's going to help GTO. I seriously don't think this car is attracting those kinds of buyers solely because of HP so adding more HP isn't going to help.
And while GuionM makes some good points, I still disagree that it's the price alone that's killing this car. It's definitely the major factor, but if people WANTED the car, they would buy it. Other limited cars have been marked up and sold well and in much higher numbers than the GTO. I seriously believe it's a combination of price, mileage, weight, perception and looks that's keeping this car from selling and thus becoming (if not already) a flop. Once the car is branded a flop...
And while GuionM makes some good points, I still disagree that it's the price alone that's killing this car. It's definitely the major factor, but if people WANTED the car, they would buy it. Other limited cars have been marked up and sold well and in much higher numbers than the GTO. I seriously believe it's a combination of price, mileage, weight, perception and looks that's keeping this car from selling and thus becoming (if not already) a flop. Once the car is branded a flop...
Thread Starter
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 16,176
From: Chicagoland IL
Originally posted by PaperTarget
Once the car is branded a flop...
Once the car is branded a flop...
It would have been better to try to sell the few GTO's at a reasonable price. That way the stories would be "Pontiacs' GTO hot seller! GTO sold out early!"
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Joined: Jan 2004
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I'm in the 4th largest city in America (Houston) and I finally saw my second GTO on the highway yesterday morning. They're sitting on the lots here for the most part.
BTW, did a quick search online and found 25 GTOs sitting on dealer lots here. Considering that the car has been out for at least 3 months and I've only seen two, I'd say things aren't looking good.
BTW, did a quick search online and found 25 GTOs sitting on dealer lots here. Considering that the car has been out for at least 3 months and I've only seen two, I'd say things aren't looking good.
Last edited by PaperTarget; May 25, 2004 at 01:07 PM.
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 64
From: on an island
Im waiting for an 05 with LS2 and Barbados blue! sweet! Other than that dealers need to stop gouging, its just pain stupid. They would sell more make good money off each one for msrp or slightly less. leaving them on the lot for weeks is outright stupidity.
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 293
From: Hou,TX
Originally posted by Z28Wilson
[B]Let's compare model year for model year, for starters. Why do you insist on saying the 2005 GT will outrun the 2004 GTO? People who know what the 2005 Mustang GT is capable of are probably also aware that the 2005 GTO will get the LS2, so the power argument is a non-issue. The GTO still has virtually the same trunk capacity as the SN95 Stang, but I am not sure what the specs are in that area for the new car.
"Mediocre performance?" Let's calm down here. A well driven GTO on the street compared to the other "Muscle Cars" currently available should not have to apologize to anything short of the blown Cobras.
Here's the thing I find hilarious. Ford guys are all getting up in GM's face about the GTO and GM's lineup in general about how they don't offer something comparable to Chrysler's LX cars....heck there's some GM die hards on this site moaning the same thing. But I think the price and package that Chrysler is offering in the LX vehicles took everyone by surprise. Ford fans, where is your sophisticated full size RWD vehicle that offers as an option a powerful V8 and lots of luxury with a base price of $23,000? Don't give me the Panther cars.
Chrysler raised the bar on ALL of us, so now both companies have to respond. It's that simple.
Anyway, I can't sit here and claim to know all the reasons why the GTO hasn't sold as expected so far, but if you believe Pontiac then it is selling as expected, so far....the bottom line is, if Pontiac is right, the 18,000 copies will sell by the end of the year. I'm going to wait and see.
[B]Let's compare model year for model year, for starters. Why do you insist on saying the 2005 GT will outrun the 2004 GTO? People who know what the 2005 Mustang GT is capable of are probably also aware that the 2005 GTO will get the LS2, so the power argument is a non-issue. The GTO still has virtually the same trunk capacity as the SN95 Stang, but I am not sure what the specs are in that area for the new car.
"Mediocre performance?" Let's calm down here. A well driven GTO on the street compared to the other "Muscle Cars" currently available should not have to apologize to anything short of the blown Cobras.
Here's the thing I find hilarious. Ford guys are all getting up in GM's face about the GTO and GM's lineup in general about how they don't offer something comparable to Chrysler's LX cars....heck there's some GM die hards on this site moaning the same thing. But I think the price and package that Chrysler is offering in the LX vehicles took everyone by surprise. Ford fans, where is your sophisticated full size RWD vehicle that offers as an option a powerful V8 and lots of luxury with a base price of $23,000? Don't give me the Panther cars.
Chrysler raised the bar on ALL of us, so now both companies have to respond. It's that simple.
Anyway, I can't sit here and claim to know all the reasons why the GTO hasn't sold as expected so far, but if you believe Pontiac then it is selling as expected, so far....the bottom line is, if Pontiac is right, the 18,000 copies will sell by the end of the year. I'm going to wait and see.
When is the LS2 GTO going to be on dealer floors? We're a year out at least. The C6 gets it all to itself for the '05MY IMO.
As to the trunk, let's get over this cu ft canard. It's not about cu ft, it's about a giant box in the middle of my trunk space. I can make a nice ring have as much cu ft as a box, but the ring is only good for coke cans. Got it?
Well it is spoiled to be calling a mid 13 sec car mediocre. But here we are in summer '04. For a 2 door $33K sport coupe, it's mediocre. You got low 13 Mach1s for $24K, $30K Cobras running mid-high 12s, $30K Evo and STis running low 13s. $19K SRT-4s running high 13s, $32K luxury boat 300Cs running high 13s...
I don't hear any Ford guys bitching about not having a Ford 300C. They're all popping champagne bottles over the new GT. It's only the bowtie crowd that doesn't have anything to celebrate.
I don't know the solution for the GTO. I would suspect that the LS2 would make it a high 12 sec car. Now suddenly, the GTO is only rivaled by the Cobra. Horsepower can be an exclusive factor. Beyond that, the styling is a problem. And it don't mean hood scoops. I mean muscular cues. Fender bulges and bigger wheels and tires.
If a photochop expert here could put fender bulges like an M3 and 18s on there, I'd like to see it.
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Joined: Nov 1999
Posts: 188
From: Tampa, FL
Originally posted by hp_nut
...If a photochop expert here could put fender bulges like an M3 and 18s on there, I'd like to see it.
...If a photochop expert here could put fender bulges like an M3 and 18s on there, I'd like to see it.
http://www.gminsidenews.com/forum/in...=post&id=39015
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 1,232
From: Orlando, FL USA
Originally posted by hp_nut
It's only the bowtie crowd that doesn't have anything to celebrate.
It's only the bowtie crowd that doesn't have anything to celebrate.
I've been an entrenched supporter for the new GM with Lutz at the helm but its extremely frustrating right now watching everyone else celebrate while we have to wait for our cars to come through GM's S-L-O-W beancounter political pipeline.
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Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 917
From: Lexington, KY
Originally posted by hp_nut
I don't hear any Ford guys bitching about not having a Ford 300C. They're all popping champagne bottles over the new GT. It's only the bowtie crowd that doesn't have anything to celebrate.
I don't hear any Ford guys bitching about not having a Ford 300C. They're all popping champagne bottles over the new GT. It's only the bowtie crowd that doesn't have anything to celebrate.
Popping champagne bottles over the new GT? Yeah, cause we all know how many people will have those. How about the CTS-V, or were you only referring to Chevy? Oh that's right...there's the new Corvette if that's the case.If the GTO's performance is mediocre, then the Mach's is moreso.
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,139
From: Commerce, mi, USA
This quote just about sums up the frustrations felt by many diehard GM fans everywhere. Chrysler fans are having wet dreams of fast sport compacts and high-powered HEMI cars while Ford fans get a chance to see the rebirth of the GT40 and the new and better (looks aside) Mustang. GM fans are being forced to freaking wait for YEARS for exciting cars to come out.
I swear, there will be a vocal minority griping here until GM has a performance variant for every single vehicle niche known to mankind
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 64
From: on an island
Go read the reviews by the regular people buying this car at edumunds.com. I was just checking it out and most if not all have plenty of good things to say about the GTO and are very happy with it. Most here complaining are a very small minority. The 05 GTO will get the LS2 in 05 and it will be an even better car than now.
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Joined: May 1998
Posts: 317
From: Maumee, OH
Actually, the problem isn't with GM cars... I've said it a million times, for every GM car out there (with the possible exception of the Z06), there is a better/faster car for equal or (more often than not) less money. This is GM's problem and the bland styling of the entire product line does not help the situation at all. What's worse, whether true or not, is GM's perceived lack of quality in components. You can yell and scream all you want about a CTS-V or whatever, but the fact remains, you can find a better/faster car that the general public perceives as better simply because it's not GM. Right now, GM's own worst enemy is GM itself.
BTW, I'm due to take delivery of my '04 TrailBlazer on Thursday. The only reason I'm getting this is because of my GMS discount and the huge amount of rebates that are available right now. Otherwise, I'd probably be looking at a Honda Pilot. Don't get me wrong, I really like the TrailBlazer and I think it does get somewhat of a bad rap, but guess what? If I were average Joe Blow with no outside knowledge, I would read consumer reports, or edmunds, or even (gasp!) Car & Driver or the like! And you know what I would find? Not one good word about it. Not one.
In one regard I do agree with Guion: GM really needs to get the message out, not just about the GTO, but all of their cars. I know they've made leaps and bounds quality-wise, but the rest of the world is not so inclined. As someone stated, we are a mere fraction of a fraction of the buying public, and people that actually have these cars are in general praising them. But they're the only ones, and nobody's putting them in their magazines.
I really don't see a good way for GM to shake this (lack of) quality stigma. One way, would be to smother people with lower-priced cars, thereby forcing the hands of people that might not otherwise look at GM. I know this is a pipe-dream, but if you can't agree to the above, then you at least have to acknowledge that quality issues will always swing prospective buyers to a Honda Accord as opposed to a generally more expensive Impala.
Anyway, that's my little rant on all of this. I do find it amusing to see so many people now touting that the GTO costs too much. It's actually the one car that if I could get for sticker, I might buy from GM. Otherwise, GM does not have a car in their entire lineup that I would even consider. Incidentally, one other possible cause for low GTO sales, at least in my area, is no test drives allowed. Only if you have check in hand and are ready to buy. That's nearly a direct quote from Brown Pontiac here in T-town. Serious buyers only. It would literally be easier for me to get a Vette to test drive. Just another item of note.
BTW, I'm due to take delivery of my '04 TrailBlazer on Thursday. The only reason I'm getting this is because of my GMS discount and the huge amount of rebates that are available right now. Otherwise, I'd probably be looking at a Honda Pilot. Don't get me wrong, I really like the TrailBlazer and I think it does get somewhat of a bad rap, but guess what? If I were average Joe Blow with no outside knowledge, I would read consumer reports, or edmunds, or even (gasp!) Car & Driver or the like! And you know what I would find? Not one good word about it. Not one.
In one regard I do agree with Guion: GM really needs to get the message out, not just about the GTO, but all of their cars. I know they've made leaps and bounds quality-wise, but the rest of the world is not so inclined. As someone stated, we are a mere fraction of a fraction of the buying public, and people that actually have these cars are in general praising them. But they're the only ones, and nobody's putting them in their magazines.
I really don't see a good way for GM to shake this (lack of) quality stigma. One way, would be to smother people with lower-priced cars, thereby forcing the hands of people that might not otherwise look at GM. I know this is a pipe-dream, but if you can't agree to the above, then you at least have to acknowledge that quality issues will always swing prospective buyers to a Honda Accord as opposed to a generally more expensive Impala.
Anyway, that's my little rant on all of this. I do find it amusing to see so many people now touting that the GTO costs too much. It's actually the one car that if I could get for sticker, I might buy from GM. Otherwise, GM does not have a car in their entire lineup that I would even consider. Incidentally, one other possible cause for low GTO sales, at least in my area, is no test drives allowed. Only if you have check in hand and are ready to buy. That's nearly a direct quote from Brown Pontiac here in T-town. Serious buyers only. It would literally be easier for me to get a Vette to test drive. Just another item of note.
Last edited by RoMaD; May 25, 2004 at 10:46 PM.
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,139
From: Commerce, mi, USA
Actually, the problem isn't with GM cars... I've said it a million times, for every GM car out there (with the possible exception of the Z06), there is a better/faster car for equal or (more often than not) less money. This is GM's problem and the bland styling of the entire product line does not help the situation at all. What's worse, whether true or not, is GM's perceived lack of quality in components. You can yell and scream all you want about a CTS-V or whatever, but the fact remains, you can find a better/faster car that the general public perceives as better simply because it's not GM. Right now, GM's own worst enemy is GM itself.
As for styling. Here is the definition of bland:
(Toyota... Honda... Which one's which?
)Here's the antidote for bland:
