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Government tells GM- Plan for June 1st Bankruptcy....

Old Apr 13, 2009 | 04:21 AM
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Government tells GM- Plan for June 1st Bankruptcy....

All the drama about a bailout...and we still get a bankruptcy. I don't see how it will be surgical...too many people are getting hosed for them all to come to an agreement.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090413/us_nm/us_autos_gm


WASHINGTON, April 12 (Reuters ) – The U.S. Treasury Department is directing General Motors to lay the groundwork for a bankruptcy filing by June 1, even though the automaker has publicly stated it could reorganize outside of court, The New York Times reported on Sunday.

GM is operating under emergency U.S. government loans. It has been told by the Obama administration's task force overseeing its bailout that it must cut costs and reduce its debts in order to continue to receive aid.

The White House-appointed autos task force has given GM 60 days to come up with a restructuring plan and it is trying to determine whether the automaker can be a viable company.

Quoting sources who had been briefed on the GM plans, the Times said the goal was to prepare for a fast "surgical" bankruptcy.

The newspaper said preparations are aimed at assuring a GM bankruptcy filing is ready if the company is unable to reach agreement with bondholders to exchange roughly $28 billion in debt into equity in GM and with the United Automobile Workers union.

A plan under consideration would create a new company that would buy the "good" assets of GM after the carmaker files for bankruptcy, the Times said.

Less desirable assets, including unwanted brands, factories and health care obligations, would be left in the old company, which could be liquidated over several years, according to the paper.

Treasury officials are examining one potential outcome in which the viable GM enters and exits bankruptcy protection in as little as two weeks, using $5 billion to $7 billion in federal financing, a person briefed on the matter told the Times.

The Times sources declined to be identified because they were not authorized to discuss the process. Both GM and Treasury Department officials declined to comment, the newspaper said.

Last week, GM's chief executive said the automaker wanted to restructure out of court, but also preparing for a bankruptcy filing.
Old Apr 13, 2009 | 09:20 AM
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i think the use of the term "surgical" is more or less to imply a bankruptcy file with a purpose to remove the "bad" from the "good".

The patient (GM) gets better. It doesn't mean everything continues the same. Jobs, union, dealers, brands, cars, future product, current product, etc all get effected. That was set in stone a long time ago.
Old Apr 13, 2009 | 09:24 AM
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Surgical = dismantling...

Don't expect GM to look, act or be the same after they chop of it's ***** and take it's brain.

(We'll get Toyota for a few years and then GM will just die)
Old Apr 13, 2009 | 09:29 AM
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It's not pleasant to watch but it's necessary as far as I can tell. We can't just keep throwing good money after bad.

As far as why they 'bailed' them out before if they were just going to declare bankruptcy? Maybe they needed time to formulate a strategy for the bankruptcy, or maybe they needed to see how quickly GM and/or the economy could turn things around?
Old Apr 13, 2009 | 09:37 AM
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Originally Posted by FUTURE_OF_GM
Surgical = dismantling...
I think it will mean Chevrolet and Cadillac will survive at worst and Chevrolet, Cadillac, Buick, GMC survive at best. Surgical = remove the cancer to save the patient.

Originally Posted by FUTURE_OF_GM
Don't expect GM to look, act or be the same after they chop of it's ***** and take it's brain.

(We'll get Toyota for a few years and then GM will just die)
I think you're right on the first part, I don't expect them to look, act, or be the same. But will that be bad? Hopefully they'll be right sized for the market without ridiculous amounts of overlap between divisions.

We already have plenty of Toyotas. Despite what many think I don't foresee the government telling GM what to build. Will they push them toward green cars? Sure. Will they say "Oh, and can the Camaro and Corvette," no. The "New" GM would have to be profitable and the Camaro and 'Vette will be profitable in a way that most "green" cars never will be.

GM is dead, right now and has been for months. Turn off the life support (government funds) and they'll go quietly into that good night immediately.

If they can resurrect a fraction of GM and make it profitable, it will be more "alive" than it has been in recent memory.

Originally Posted by Threxx
As far as why they 'bailed' them out before if they were just going to declare bankruptcy? Maybe they needed time to formulate a strategy for the bankruptcy, or maybe they needed to see how quickly GM and/or the economy could turn things around?
It was necessary to bail them out before because the company is broke and would have been liquidated by now without the money to buy some time to figure out what to do.
Old Apr 13, 2009 | 09:49 AM
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So does this mean the new LaCrosse will be the new Impala instead? Sweet
Old Apr 13, 2009 | 10:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Jason E
So does this mean the new LaCrosse will be the new Impala instead? Sweet
In all of the bankruptcy discussions had on this forum I don't think I've heard anyone suggest Buick was going to be cut.

It's a cash cow for GM in China.
Old Apr 13, 2009 | 11:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Eric77TA
Will they push them toward green cars? Sure. Will they say "Oh, and can the Camaro and Corvette," no.
The government doesn't even have to decree certain models must die. There's this little thing called "rising CAFE standards" that could do the same job while making it appear that the blame for Camaro/Mustang/Corvette's demise is on the automaker and not the government.

Just saying....
Old Apr 13, 2009 | 12:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Z28Wilson
The government doesn't even have to decree certain models must die. There's this little thing called "rising CAFE standards" that could do the same job while making it appear that the blame for Camaro/Mustang/Corvette's demise is on the automaker and not the government.

Just saying....
First, the CAFE standards would have risen even if GM were making money hand over fist right now. There's no "government forcing GM" required for that. That's across the board and applies to every manufacturer.

Second, the Camaro, Mustang, Corvette are safe for a long, long time. None of the three get especially bad gas mileage and even when sales rebound there should be more than enough 1.4 DI Cruzes and thrifty Fiestas to balance them.
Old Apr 13, 2009 | 12:15 PM
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The problem is that the cancer is GM's legacy costs..not brands like Pontiac. What this bankruptcy is doing is not only removing cancer..but also taking a few limbs with it.
Old Apr 13, 2009 | 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted by formula79
The problem is that the cancer is GM's legacy costs..not brands like Pontiac. What this bankruptcy is doing is not only removing cancer..but also taking a few limbs with it.
Yes, sometimes cancer leads to a masectomy. And we shall miss those pontiac sweater puppies...
Old Apr 13, 2009 | 01:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Threxx
In all of the bankruptcy discussions had on this forum I don't think I've heard anyone suggest Buick was going to be cut.

It's a cash cow for GM in China.
I've seen some suggestions through Reuters and other news outlets that if GM went into Ch. 11, Chevy and Cadillac may be the only things wanted back in the end.

Think about it...BPG exists as a group to satisfy dealers, and to keep from ripping up dealer agreements...costly to do outside of Chapter 11, but probably easy in it. Now, I like Buick, GMC and Pontiac...but when Chevy sells, what, nearly 80% of GM's cars? And Cadillac is the cash cow?

You tell me why they keep the other 3, other than to keep unprofitable market share. I agree that a "middle child" like Buick would be great (hell, I want all of BPG to stay)...but can you see a bunch of standalone Buick stores?

One big point of bankruptcy is to kill dealers and overcapcity...which is all BPG is. Who the hell says you can't keep Buick in China? All they are is rebadged Opels at this point anyway!!!!
Old Apr 13, 2009 | 01:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Eric77TA
First, the CAFE standards would have risen even if GM were making money hand over fist right now. There's no "government forcing GM" required for that. That's across the board and applies to every manufacturer.
Agreed.

Originally Posted by Eric77TA
Second, the Camaro, Mustang, Corvette are safe for a long, long time. None of the three get especially bad gas mileage and even when sales rebound there should be more than enough 1.4 DI Cruzes and thrifty Fiestas to balance them.
I agree that those cars are safe for the foreseeable future. I'm just saying that there may be a point where volume CAFE-negative cars like Camaro and Mustang become endangered - at least in the available V8 formats we want. A near 4000 pound, 400+ HP coupe makes decreasing sense as CAFE rises.
Old Apr 13, 2009 | 01:58 PM
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So, who's going to get royally screwed in all of this? Retired workers? Current Workers? BPG and saturn dealers go under? Us as taxpayers? Suppliers? Banks? Insurance companies? ????

I imagine a very large number of people will lose jobs from this?
Old Apr 13, 2009 | 02:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Silverado C-10
So, who's going to get royally screwed in all of this? Retired workers? Current Workers? BPG and saturn dealers go under? Us as taxpayers? Suppliers? Banks? Insurance companies? ????

I imagine a very large number of people will lose jobs from this?
All of the above and more?
It sure seems like EVERYBODY is going to take more than a haircut.

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