Care to explain what this is supposed to mean? Do you feel the GP is a bad car?

 

Well the 'value price' sticker price was still negotiable down to invoice in most cases, right? So what does this really change? Based on the example given I would be surprised if that's not really pretty much the invoice price or higher before these programs.

I guess this just takes the 'haggle' out of it?

Any chance this is gonna carry over to the GMT-900s?

 

this GMS discount program is on the NBC nightly news right now, a whole segment.

 

See, this is where problem lies. The general public isn't easily fooled where their hard earned cash is concerned (regardless of what we as enthusiasts may say about their knowledge on what WE'RE more concerned about aka Camaro).

Had GM set realistic "value pricing" in the first place, they wouldn't be in the position to be having to "blink" now! GM's "value pricing" as is, is in most cases at least $1500 to $2000 off the mark. You can't expect people to start "believing" the cars are worth the price you arbitrarily set. Instead of focusing on artificial accounting algorithms to get that magic figure, they should have looked at the last 12-18 months of REAL TRANSACTION figures for every model they sell and pin the MSRP to THAT. On new models, that have no previous sales data (obviously), set the price INLINE with other models that DO have history.

What GM is doing now, is wishfully setting their MSRPs artificially high (maybe to please dealers or something) and praying the public will swallow their BS. When the public doesn't bite, they throw a bucket of chum just to get attention. Once the public is full on chum, they're back to not biting the BS.

Its really simple. I mean if I can see this, why can't GM's entire sales/marketing/accounting staff and their management???

 

You can see it because you haven't swallowed the internal "believing your own BS" line. I see it all the time in our clients. When they believe their own BS for too long, they go down.

I hope this is not the case for GM. The wake-up call has been given. Lots of times. Hopefully, they'll get it before it's too late.

 

I really don't see what the difference is between giving the cars a reasonable price, and dealing with it.

And giving the cars a less than reasonable price, than dropping it, then raising it back up again. Unless of course they have some advertising money they need to use by year end.

 

Well , I take back what I said as pertains to the G6 anyways . This car seems to have gotten mucho cheaper on the window sticker . I was looking GTP's today . The dealer I was at had a slew of 6 cyl G6 GT's, loaded , 17" non-chrome wheels , cloth seats , sunroof , adjustable pedals , remote start all priced at $22,6xx on the window sticker . IMO , ALOT of car for $22K . Even the GTP's with leather and XM that had the normal non-panoramic sunroof were $27K . So the G6 is excused

 

This makes me sick. It really, really does. As someone above said, GM needed at least 90 days to suck it up in the marketplace...and they can't even do that. Cobalts don't need incentives to sell. G6s don't need incentives to sell. I am glad to see Caddy, Hummer, the Solstice and the Vette are excused, but in reality, cars like the LaCrosse, G6, Cobalt and Impala should be too. This is a joke...a bad, bad joke.

I actually got in an argument with my dad last night over how dumb GM has been in the marketplace over the last 18-24 months. He believes that if someone like Hyundai can come out with a car as nice as the Sonata, why did Chevy try to hawk such a crappy Malibu? Why does the GP, 3 years later, still have such a lousy interior? Why is the Monte nothing more than an Impala nose grafted onto the old car, and still has some of the crappiest interior trim bits on a $30k car of any car out there? Why can't a G6 sedan be more aggressive looking? Why can Honda come out with a Civic that while I think its ugly (and he does too), but Chevy comes out with a Cobalt that although it has an extremely nice interior and driving experience, doesn't look THAT much different than a Cavalier? How old will it look in 2 years?

Furthermore, what Chevy says "gotta have it" other than the Corvette? He told me that other than a C6, there is not one GM product remotely worth him trading in his Formula for. The problem is, I can't argue with any of what he said. I got annoyed over the Hyundai thing, as I think a G6 is a better looking car than the Sonata, for sure. But he does have a point with virtually everything else.

Its pretty sad when a friend of mine, who I sold an '01 GA GT to, says "this is the last domestic I will ever buy. It has 80k on it, and I don't think it will last another year." She's had the same nit-picky crap go wrong with it I had go wrong with my own GA. Its pathetic when I agree with Motor Trend that a $30k Torrent "has some nice features, but the driving dynamics don't nearly justify the price."

I think the worst thing is that if its a car that costs under $30k MSRP-wise, there is one single car out of all the GM divisions I would care to POSSIBLY spend the $$$ on...a G6 GTP (MC SS or GXP, the way I'd want them, would be over $31k). And even that, with 240hp, isn't nearly as "gotta have" as a 280hp s/c variant would be....but oh wait, they killed that idea. Let rebates ring, then!

I was waxing my GP yesterday, and I still believe it is the nicest midsize car GM has produced in 10 years. Apparently, many agree...because I don't see hardly any coming back in on trade for a new GP. I don't see hardly any GAs coming back in on G6s. The natives are restless, and they're going elsewhere. Rebates or not, the only real "gotta have" domestics are a Mustang, Corvette, and the LX Cars.

Anything GM, they seem to feel the need to cut the price to make it worth a sale. Maybe Maximum Bob needs to get more of those "gotta haves" out on the lot, and give us fewer 5 cylinder H3s, 185hp Torrents, 197hp Lucernes and CTSs with rubber interiors. Sorry to be so defeatist, but I don't even see how GM will be able to get the "gotta have" models of a few years away out. They'll be outta cash before then!

As guion said, this is VERY BAD NEWS. I was already getting a little gloomy before this...this just takes the cake.

 

What is the skinny on this? Somebody cutaway all the fat and tell me if the consumer is getting a price that is $100 plus the price GM sells its cars to dealers.?
Or are they raising the MSRP and telling the consumer their getting the car at MSRP + $100?

edit: there are also too many incentives going around.
Employee prices here (scam), at MSRP there, below MSRP over there, rebates there, cash back over there.

To me, GM is telling people that you can get a car for $20k, if you know were to find all of the money back options. And in reality, since most people can't, they will pay $25k.
I'm really starting to question what these guys are doing.

 

What confuses me is how so many GM interiors, once replaced by the new version of their car, are admittedly 'crappy' but back when they came out everyone here on the board was singing praises?

GP interior that JasonE mentioned is an example. I fought tooth and nail with formula79 and others saying that the new GP interior was NOT up to par with the *** cars. 8 months later after formula79 has bought one I even hear him ******* on it.

What gives? Is it the substance remaining after the hype fizzles down?

 

People were praising the improvement, they were not saying GM had the best interiors.

 

I suppose you can say that GM either needs more "gotta have" products or it needs to lower the price on their "don't really gotta have" products.

 

$2,000 a car for healthcare and retirement pensions etc.... Take $1,500 dollars off MSRP and how would GM's cars compete?

 

There is a difference between how something looks in pictures, and how it is in reality. For instance, your Audi's interior sure looks cool..but in terms reliabilty and build quality it is a crap box.

When I first saw the GP interior in pictures it looked GREAT. Honestly appeared light years ahead of the outgoing model. Then I test drove a GT about 6 months before I bought mine that had the two tone interior, and it still seemed great to me. Now after living with mine nearly two years, I have learned that though it looked cool, it was not built with the best material. On a hot day, the plastic on the center stack heats up and expands leaving nasty gaps between it and the radio. The brushed aluminum trim on the steering wheel wore off and had to be replace under warrenty. The center console is made of cheap material, and you can easily shake it back and forth. The HUD button is a cheap engineering nightmare. Lastly, the leather on the seats is cheap, and looks way older than it actually is. Other than that, though I have not had anything physically break, or and squeeks and rattles.

That being said, my car is black, sounds bad assed, and can lay the smack down on plenty of cars that cost more than it roaming the street right about now...so I can over look some things.




On another note, the wifes Equinox is a pleasent surpise. We have had it now for about 6 months, and it has been doing great. Interior has held up well, and the materials seem on par with anything in the class. The 3400 is servicable with the 5 speed in this application. Honestly, I am willing the Equinox wins a lot more women (I am assuming that is who GM is after with this market) with it's "cute" factor, than it looses with the 3400.

 

"When I saw the new GMS plus $100 program I knew the jig was up."