Dude, it's complete and utter bull****. A negotiating number, pulled straight out of the air. I'll guaran-damn-tee invoice numbers WERE NOT showing the sales prices I'm seeing right now 12 months ago.

 

Invoice is a relatively constant number based off of MSRP. You have the actual cost of options, then delaer holdback is added (which is [MSRP-destination] X 3%). Then add the amount of advertising the dealer pays/sets aside (listed on the invoice itself). and you arrive at the invoice price of the vehicle.

 

There always is going to be extra kickbacks from the factory that are not included in the invoice so the dealer always makes more on the car then they state.

So make the dealer sell you the car @ $500 below invoice and 0% for six years.

 

Why not both?

 

"RELATIVELY" constant... well, apart from... blahblahblah x eleventybillion.


And the "invoice" price of the vehicle then has absolutely nothing to do then with actual dealer COST.

You will NEVER buy a vehicle at dealer cost, they will never tell you what dealer cost actually is (unless of course they just lie... which is normal), nor will you ever know what the other cost drivers are that are built into the price of the vehicle by the dealer.

SG&A?
Profit?
Fixed costs?
Variable costs?

How about we just finish the conversation with you'll never have any damned clue, and they aren't going to tell you.

I'd be surprised if most run-of-the-mill salespeople knew.

Invoice means NOTHING. You can bet your *** though that actual dealer cost is somewhere very close to GMS, and nowhere near invoice.

 

I thought there was some legal anti-trust basis for invoice prices...but I'm too lazy right now to google it up.

It all started with the MSRP sticker requirement, or sumfin rather...yeah.. something like that.

 

I say "GO FOR IT!"

 

True. The best thing to do is to know your invoice price, with your specific options, and walk up to the manager (never a salesman) with much respect, and be willing to kindly walk away if you don't get it at that price.


Just don't give them your cell phone number until negotiations are finalized

 

I have...twice

Though trusting 'someone' for my Tacoma, I probably paid MSRP

 

from auto.com

GM to boost incentives to regain share

December 9, 2004


BY JOHN PORRETTO
ASSOCIATED PRESS


General Motors Corp., coming off disappointing November sales and battling to regain U.S. market share, will launch a new promotion Friday that includes cash bonuses on many new models beyond incentives already available.

The bonus cash could create deals worth $4,000, $5,000 or more in rebates on some 2004 and 2005 models, when combined with existing incentives.

GM wouldn't confirm the new marketing program Wednesday, but dealers say they've been notified of the December red tag sale, which will include bonus cash of $500 to $2,500 for customers who finance their purchases through GMAC, GM's finance arm.


The promotion runs through Jan. 3.


GM's latest push to spur sales was widely expected after business fell 13 percent last month and its U.S. market share sank to one of its lowest points on record at 24.8 percent. GM actually scaled back incentives in November -- from an average of $4,051 per vehicle in October to $3,747, Autodata Corp. reports -- and analysts say that likely contributed to the decline.


Ford Motor Co., the nation's second-largest automaker behind GM whose sales also slumped in November, said it had no plans to match GM's enhanced offers. Chrysler, the American arm of DaimlerChrysler AG, also reported no immediate intentions to change its marketing strategy from November.


"GM's share performance has been disappointing this year and was significantly weaker than normal in November on the incentive pullback," Credit Suisse First Boston analyst Chris Ceraso said in a research report. "We can see this relationship for the Big Three in general, where share has been more disappointing in the months where incentives have declined."


Ceraso noted that incentives normally rise in November as the hoopla surrounding new-model introductions begins to wane, but several later-than-usual launches from GM and Ford likely upset the typical pattern.


Ford also lowered its average outlay per vehicle last month -- from $3,425 in October to $3,206 -- while Chrysler upped its spending slightly, from $3,539 in October to $3,546, Autodata reported.


Asian manufacturers continue to spend far less on incentives than their domestic rivals -- an average of $1,379 per vehicle in November -- but continue to grab market share. For the first 11 months of 2004, Asian automakers' U.S. market share was 34.5 percent, up from 32.8 percent a year earlier, Autodata reports.


For the same period, GM, Ford and Chrysler had a combined U.S. market share of 58.7 percent, down from 60 percent in the year-ago period.


Ford's sales of its Ford, Lincoln and Mercury brands fell 4.3 percent in November from the year before, its ninth monthly decline this year. Chrysler, meanwhile, saw business rise 8.9 percent, its eighth consecutive monthly increase.


Ford spokesman Dave Reuter said the company was selling all-new models such as the Ford Five-Hundred sedan and Escape hybrid sport-utility vehicle with no cash rebates and only competitive financing

 

Wow, I'm so happy now to know that even though I am a Fleet Manager for 5 stores, that I don't know what I'm am talking about.

The reason I said relative to MSRP is because there is a consistant mark-up between invoice and the MSRP amounts, I just couldn't think of the exact amount off the top of my head.

I already stated what the profit is that the dealer still maintains when selling at invoice, it's called hold back. Other than that, there are no kick-backs, or extra money that is available most of the time. The rebates are usually consumer rebates that are always passed on to the customer. Only in rare instances are there what's called dealercash, which is a little extra money that's available. This almost never happens though, except with Hummers.

 

The factory won't give you the rebates and 0% (except for the GMAC bonus cash). They make up the rules how they work, not the dealer (it isn't he dealers money to give).

 

The original question was in regards to invoice and rebates, not rebates and 0%. Besides, when I bought my Ranger, the guy told me he'd knock another $1000 off if I financed, so I did (financed for one month). I think only Ford financing does this though.

 

I thought this had been around for a while?? When I was going to buy a 2002 Z28 fully loaded (MSRP around $30K) a few years ago, they were going to give me 0% and $3500 cash back AND pay off my trade in (about $3000 owed on it still)

 

I thought you were saying to take the rebates and the 0%. I simply read your post the wrong way.