It just dawned on me. Maintanence cost for the Honda V6 over 100,000 miles is higher than the "old tech" GM V6!

Changing the timing belt AND water pump every 90,000 miles? Change transmission fluid every 30,000 miles?

For the 1st 100,000 miles on GM vehicles, all that's required of engine maintenence is changing the oil!

 

R377, the s2000 is powered by a 2.0L 4 banger. It’s got a blower, 2 cyl, and 1.8L of displacement less when compared to the S/c’ed 3.8L. Just by looking at those numbers, it’s pretty obvious as to which has a better low end hp/tq (S/c 3.8). It isn’t even close. The 2.0 doesn’t even come alive till 6k rpms and is pretty gutless at anything less. Over Tq production isn't steller either. The bottom end is almost non-exsistent.

I think Redzed was talking about the Honda 3.5L v6. This engine is fairly Tqy for a N/A 6 banger and makes 250lb-ft of Tq at 3500rpms and 260hp@5750rpms. If you compare it to the larger N/A 3.8L, you’ll notice that peak Tq comes in at almost 500rpms lower. Unlike the other Honda motors, it isn’t as high strung and was tuned for use in the Acura MDX SUV.

guionM, interesting point. As an owner of 3 accords (2 v6’s), I know they’re excellent values and are relatively trouble free. I did a search anyways, and this is what I found: 5 year maintenance cost for accord Ex v6 is $1,280 where as it is $2,457 for the Imp. 5 year repair costs are $552 for the accord v6 while it is $793 on the 3.8L Imp. Tally both up and you’ll get $1,832 for the v6 accord and $3,250 for the 3.8L Imp, a difference of $1,418. And so while it may force you to change waterpumps every 90k miles, tranny oils every 30k miles, etc… overall maintance and repair costs are still significantly less (source is intellichoice). And these are 5 year figures. I'd be interested to see 10 year or 200k mile figures.

The 3.8 as old as it is, is a well-proven design. Still, i'd much rather see the 3.6L HFv6 in the Imp. It is deserving of one since almost every other car in its class has one similar to it.

 

I'm fully aware of that. I was just using an extreme example of two engines with identical peak HP to prove a point: peak HP or torque values are almost meaningless when comparing outputs of two different engines. Obviously the Honda and GM V6 engines are not going to differ as drastically being close to the same displacement and configuration. But saying that the Honda has better output just because its peak is 5 HP more is pretty much unfounded. Even the statistical variance is greater than that.

I would be interested in your source for the maintenence costs for the 3.8 litre Impy. Not much has to be done to these vehicles in their first 100 k, so where is the $2500 going? Are you sure you are just including the recommended maintenence costs?

 

That’s a good question. I clicked on the “maintenance” link for an explanation and got this: “Assumes services performed generally at manufacturer's suggested intervals; other services done at selected intervals. See The Complete Car Cost Guide for more complete outline of maintenance tasks. Cost per service is based upon industry-standard service times and national labor rate averages for non-luxury cars and trucks ($75/hour) and luxury cars ($85/hour). Parts prices are based on manufacturer's suggested list price where available.

As for the source, both are intellichoice sources based off a "cost of 5 year ownership" study. I'll post all the stats. The study actually includes more than just “maintenance” and “repairs” costs that I’ve mentioned earlier. The others I didn’t include because they didn’t factor into the point I was trying to make. But here’s the whole stats.

Impala Ls (3.8L)
Value Rating: Average
Depreciation: $13,486
Financing: $3,119
Insurance: $6,380
State Fees: $435
Fuel: $4,054
Maintenance: $2457
Repairs: $793
5 year total cost of ownership: $30,724

Accord Ex (3.0L).
Value Rating: Better than Average
Depreciation: $12,503
Financing: $3,305
Insurance: $6,720
State Fees: $456
Fuel: $3794
Maintenance: $1280
Repairs: $552
5 year total cost of ownership: $28, 610

 

you're missing the point. the Honda 3.5l V6 NA "with similar peak output" to the 3800 S/C gets the job done without a blower, having stronger torque and smoother power delivery at a lower price. btw, how is having .3l of displacement and a blower on the Honda V6 fit as "close to the same displacement and configuration" in your mind? if you want to compare apples to apples as you are trying to suggest, lets compare the NA 3800 to the Honda V6. OR lets put a blower on the honda V6 and compare it to the 3800 S/C. still want to "go there?"

 

Well it's about time!

 

Re-read the posts. I was not comparing the 3.5L Honda to the 3800 S/C (nor was anyone else). The original post compared the HFV6 to the Honda V6, then for an extreme example I compared the Honda 2.0L I4 to the 3800 S/C (because they have identical peak HP numbers).