Money has been in trucks for the last 10 years or so. I would supposed it makes better financial sense to take a chance is a segment you reap alot of money from each vehicle rather than segments you lose money or barely do better than break even.

Never considered myself brainwashed concerning the inadequacies of rwd in snow.... ....just very well experienced.

 

Now wheres the paper towels so I can clean my monitor off...

 

Is GM too slow for its own good: YES!!!

Is the new GTO overpriced (and are dealers scumm): YES!!!

Do I feel that way simply because I can't buy a new Camaro or Firebird: NO (although it does leave a bad taste in my mouth).

I've been a "GM" guy all my life...I'd rather eat nails than drive a Mustang. That said, seeing what GM is offering, I'm wondring if there are any true "car guys" left at GM (or at least any left who have any power).

I'm truly glad the GTO is here but I wouldn't buy one even if the dealers weren't marking them up (dealers are scumm...you just have to face that fact and get on with life)...it's a nice car but nothing about it really "reaches out" and makes me want to buy one.

I like the new Corvette too but I'm not sure I like it better than the current C5 and I am sure that I'm not willing to go into debt for either a C5 or a C6.

Where does that leave me...driving an Xterra until I can build a Shelby Cobra replica (and trust me, it will not have "ON STAR")!!!

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by 96_Camaro_B4C
(though I think idea that the Silverado SS is aimed directly at the Lightning/SRT-10 is a bit off)'[QUOTE]

Well, you might not think it, and GM might be pleading with people to not make the comparison, but guess what? It's happening. When I can go to GM's website and look at the Silverado SS starting at 40,000, then go to the SVT site and see the Lightning starting at 33,000 with higher performance #s, why wouldn't I or someone else compare them? Just because GM says you shouldn't?

If GM wants to claim it's not really a pure performance truck or whatever so it doesn't get compared to the L, why the heck did they throw SS badges on it?

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by newby
[QUOTE]Originally posted by 96_Camaro_B4C
(though I think idea that the Silverado SS is aimed directly at the Lightning/SRT-10 is a bit off)'

Quote:

Well, you might not think it, and GM might be pleading with people to not make the comparison, but guess what? It's happening. When I can go to GM's website and look at the Silverado SS starting at 40,000, then go to the SVT site and see the Lightning starting at 33,000 with higher performance #s, why wouldn't I or someone else compare them? Just because GM says you shouldn't?

If GM wants to claim it's not really a pure performance truck or whatever so it doesn't get compared to the L, why the heck did they throw SS badges on it?

I know my brother would pay more for the Silvy SS because he has kids and needs a place to put them besides the bed, only place on a lightning. The two trucks, while both performance oriented, are in 2 completely different markets.

 

Well in that case he's going for practicality and I don't see how the 40,000 SS would really be what he was looking at anyway. There are better deals performance-wise, and better deals utility-wise. Kinda leaves the SS out in the cold a bit, don't it?

 

I think some things are getting clouded here....

For instance...

Chrysler finally stops dicking around and gets the LX cars to market after what, 5+ years of corperate infighting (you wanna see a bueaucratic mess..look at DCX first), builds it with old E-class parts and they are the toast of the town and huge risk takers....

GM yanks a car from it's Austrailian subsidiary that is RWD, has an LS1, an interior that is one of GM's best, and is really in a class of it's own, and brings it to market in less than a year....and they took the safe way out....

Ford is quick getting products to market.....

Or wait....I am still waiting to see more than drawings of the Futura (or whatever it is called) and all it is, is a reskinned Mazda6...a car that has been on the market 2 years. The Freestyle and Five hundred are reskinned Volvos...

Ford has a new Focus in Europe, but won't bring it here because the current one has not amoralized its cost yet.

The next Aviator and Zepher are also built on the Mazda6 platform.

The F150 is good.....but to be honest it has to be.

As for the Mustang....they have been working on that car since before the 1999 reskin was launched. Amazing it took that long to make a new car look like a 1964 model?

And as for DCX-

I hear every one singing the praises of the LX...which is all well and good...but it is only one model line. Lets look at the rest...

The Sebring/Stratus are old, and never really were as good as the N-bodies or W-bodies. I hear nothing of these being replaced. They were supposed to be piggybacked on a Mitsu platform....but last I checked Mitsu a DCX are divorced.

The Neon is a POS....the SRT-4 is a POS witha good engine. Was supposed to be replaced with a Mitsu based car.....don't know now.

The PT Cruiser is fading....and again...how do you restly a retro car?

The DCX minivans are loosing market share...dispite improvements...

On the truck side they do okay...but I already see new Durangos advertised at my local dealer for $7K+ off...

Essentially....don't let the 300 cloud Chryslers real situation.



As for GM....

A few points to chew on.....

Though the GTO is not selling great, it is generating showroom traffic, and Pontiac sales are way up.
From something I wrote earlier...


Also, much as we deride the Impala...they can not make them fast enough....and make money on every one. The new one from what I hear will be even better.

The G6 will take the world by storm IMO and is a legitamate Altima contender.

One the truck front, GM's trucks from a mechanical, build aspect are still at least the equal of the best out there. In 06 there will be new interiors...and they will fix the current achilles tendon.

As for RWD cars...GM will survive till they get here....remember 90% of the buying public does not know if their car is FWD to begin with...and those who do are conditioned to think it is better.

Also by being cautious GM may come out looking good with gas prices going up, and the EPA looking at revising how they rate cars.

 

 

Personally, I think getting these cars out in 5+ years, is something of a miracle. Lemme see.....there was a takeover.....then.....the program was put on hold....then.......when it was greenlighted, it had to be re-engineered to incorporate MB technology.

A GM program which comes to fruition...from start to finish , in 5 years is heralded as a smooth success. (That's even without a corporate takeover).


BTW, as far as I know the DCX/Mitsu platform for the next gen Stratus/Neon/Sebring is a go, whether Mitsu survives or not.

The architecture will live. The new powertrains may not, though.

 

See I think GM has underwent a similar change with Lutz coming in. Anyone working at GM will tell you what a shock he is to the system.

That being said, GM has had to fix many other things before the RWD cars. Cadillac and the trucks were big money makers, and had to be fixed. The N-body cars were old and needed Epsilon. The W-cars needed a refresh. Pontiac was dying a slow death, along with Saturn. Chevy was loosing market share in cars. Money now is also being poured in the Lamba platform, which is supposed to be really great. When you look at everything as a whole, RWD cars, while needed...are not the most pressing issue. The fact that there is much more risk attached to them, just makes the preposition worse.

Chrysler is in a similar boat...the really need to fix the rest of their product line before expanding the LX platform..no matter how good the press...

But that also hinges one where Chrysler wants to be in the market....do they wanna be in the big three...or accept smaller market share.

 

A well-equipped Silverado SS has a street price of $36,802 not $40k as has been so widely misquoted. This from edmunds.com. And while comparing with the L, note the L will struggle in snowy climates and cannot carry more than three. These vehicles are simply not meant to be direct competitors.

 

Exactly. One is a "Super Sport" model and the other is a hopped up silverado.

 

Id like a good reason why you think the GTO is overpriced? Because you cant get one? Would you like to point out to the class where you can get a brand new 350hp Sports coupe for 33k, without moddifications? How about with a 200 watt, 6disk CD player? 6spd trans? V8? Seating for 4?
I remember 35th SS's and CETA's going for 35, but becaue it had scoops and wings and graphics, I guess thats cool huh? All that is worth 35k. 60hp per scoop, and 5hp per ft of graphics.

The SS isnt ment to be a sport truck. The L and SRT-10 are. When Chevy comes out with a standard cab, short bed, lowerd, 18 inch wheels, 500hp, 6spd truck, then we can start the comparison ok? The SS is a totaly different truck.
Yes the Miata and Corvette are both sports cars, but they arent exactly the same in performance.

Branden, good post. I agree with everything you said.
GM is going through a lot of internal things and it seems as if its really trying to break out of the rut they fell in durring the 90's. Lutz's hand in cars is just being felt right now.

 

The GTO is overpriced. As were all SLP 4th Gens and the Anniversary cars, as are most top GM cars. Also, they often aren't worth the price since they'll add a color, stickers, something in the interior, an emblem or 2, and charge like $5,000 more for it. I see the GTO Auto as a $30,000 car. Especially since it lacks things that it'll have next year because it was rushed. This alone should make it cheaper.

 

Find me a faster AWD pickup that seats 5 people. Your going to be searching for a long time because there isn't one out there. Most people buy a truck for utility, going fast is just and added bonus. The Silverado SS ext cab is/will out sell the Lightning and SRT-10 RAM together. The $34K Silverado SS (after rebates and etc..) is considered a better value than the $33K Lightning (no rebates avalible) by those that don't have going fast in a strait line the #1 priority in a truck.