- Buick makes no sense for the US market
- Saturn is nothing but overlap products
- GMC is overlap, yet is GMs second best selling division. Give then the H3's and Delta II based crossovers and they can stay
- Hummer needs to be sold or merged into GMCs
- Saab is not needed for the US market, they should be sold.

- Pontiac should be killed if all they are going to do is cars like the G3 and G5. I'd love to see Pontiac slimmed down to the G8, Solstice, G6, and a unique Delta car. Maybe make the G6 a Cruze based with unique sheet metal and build a 2 door version that looks more like a muscle car. 40mpg Turbo 1.4L and Trans Am styling would sell.

Edit: I suppose if Opel is sold Saturn could be sold along with it.

 

maybe it was just me but I never though the idea was for head to head "American BMW" but a much cheaper version on a smaller scale.....

if they meant head to head---well that was all talk.

 

I don't think it was supposed to be one-for-one either.
I think it was supposed to capture the essence of a BMW and put that into Pontiac's cars. That never happened.

 

Pontiac has had some interesting performance cars in the last 10-15 years, but they are but a few bits of goodness in a generally mediocre lineup.

Not everything has to be a muscle/sports car to have great dynamics and be a driver's car. Every Pontiac should have been that way, not just the random actual performance models here and there.

They have a re-badged Aveo and a "G8 Truck" on the way.

 

How was Pontiac supposed to become the "American BMW" anyway? Hey we can't even give away these FWD heaps, but come'on down and buy a $30K sports sedan!

I mean nice idea but it would take 10 years and a ton of product investment and complete re-organization of the dealer network, none of which GM was actually going to do. It was ridiculous for Lutz to even speculate about.

 

I think it all goes back to GM being late to the party time and again (and not the cool, fashionably late kind of being late, either). G8 was just poorly timed, or needed a more fuel efficient V6 at launch. Solstice was a great success, but it was never built upon--the inroads it made never translated to the rest of the car line. It generated excitement, but it never spilled over. GTO never had a chance with all the dealer mark-ups.

Want to get people talking about Pontiac again? Bring back a Firebird in the theme of the late 70's "Smokey and the Bandit" cars--that's the iconic "kick ***/I could care less what you think of me" Pontiac in my mind, and the only way to give the brand credibility again. Or at least that seems to be the only solution to the problem that you're all talking about.

 

The point being, that Pontiac being called the "American BMW" was simply ridiculous. I mean, if anything, shouldn't Cadillac be the "American BMW"? The whole thing was a farce and all those - within or without GM - who bought into it, were ridiculous as well.

They should have aimed for something less laughable, like the "America Mazda". But even that would have required effort.

 

I agree. When I bought my formula and firehawk I wanted something more than a chevy. If the brands are killed fine. But there has to be something b/w chevy and cadillac. For those that want more than a chevy but don't have cadillac money there has to be something for them. I think pontiac can fill that gap. What some people dont understand is that chevy has an image as an image of economy/utilitarian/point A-B cars. Other than the corvette a lot people have this image of chevy. GM can needs a brand for those that want a little more i.e. infiniti, acura etc. but dont want to spend mercedes or bmw money

 

I think Cadillac should aim higher than BMW (on luxury, at least -- that's a good performance target).

 

Wonder what that means in buying an actual G8 right now, pricewise..

And what happens if I do get a Pontiac G8? Will I be bringing it into a Chevy/GM Dealership for support and service?

Pretty ironic, since last night I was talking to my wife, and the only GM car( and perhaps even out of all the Detroit3) that we are realistically both interested in, is the Pontiac G8. Heh now that car is like a double wammy of "perceived risk": A near bankrupt company, thats looking to drop that brand... nice.

 

Why should Cadillac aim higher when buyers of luxury cars are not convinced that local offerings are on par with imported luxury - Lexus, BMW, MB, Audi etc...

Cadillac still need to convince the market segment where they don't have any sales conquests. I'm not knocking Cadillac because I love the brand but let's get back to reality.

 

Bad idea...IF any fat is to be cut, it needs to start at the top, NOT with the brands. The brands didn't make the mistakes, the suits did! And I would look real hard at what someone else mentioned here.The company parking lot! Anyone with anything other than a GM vehicle in their spot....start kickin' rocks bitches!!You don't care enough about the company you work for IF you won't even own the products you build! So you like Beemers, a benz maybe? Go work for them. The company needs people who are passionate enough about the company, to own it's products.

 

Exactly.

CTS needs to be a viable alternative to the 5/6 series, E class and Lexus GS. It's not there yet. Work is still required - especially in the area of engine choices and refinement.

And Cadillac desperately needs a serious contender in the 3 series/C-class/A4/IS class. Let's hope that GM's financial woes don't water down Alpha.

A proper 7 series/ S-class competitor is simply not in the cards for Caddy in the foreseeable future.

 

I can't fully understand those of you who feel that Pontiac has an identity crisis. I'm not great with automotive history, but can anyone point to a model year lineup from pontiac that included ONLY performance minded cars? Or ONLY <fill in the blank> minded cars? It seems to me that their lineup had always included economy sub-compacts, mid sized coupes/sedans, sport coupes and large sedans. They've been more of a sibling/ alternative to chevy rather than a niche brand like Saturn at least initially was intended to be.

What I really REALLY don't understand is why everyone who attempts to write Pontiac's future lineup decides to leave out Vibe and often times even G6!!! Those are the ONLY two models that Pontiac is selling in good numbers right now! And guess what.. they're both FWD! RWD is great for fun, performance, warm weather cars. But what sells in volume is affordable, practical, very easy to drive (fwd) cars that are just stylish enough to be desirable. GMs direction with Pontiac will be directed more by what sells than some selfish desire to create a lineup of kick-*** performance vehicles that don't make money! GM needs to MAKE MONEY! Not set land speed records, not win performance awards... no... just MAKE MONEY!

 

I think a CTS stretched 4 in. could nicely fill in the gap of the STS and DTS. CLS?