GM memo: Young are excluding us from consideration.
12-24-2006, 09:50 PM
#16
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Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: SeVa
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Man, I must be old or sump'tn. I have never really warmed up to FWD cars. All of the cars I have ever really lusted after were RWD in either front, mid or rear engine config. Never really cared for FWD or AWD, especially the latter which really has about as much appeal as an SMG, IRS and an active suspension...BORING...
12-24-2006, 11:07 PM
#17
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Join Date: Feb 2002
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GM needs a small car that looks great, and is cheap. I don't mean to be a rabble-rouser but the Solstice/Sky is too much.
You want to know something....If Nissan came out with the 280z/240z right now. Exact same car, stipped down to the bare essentials. It'd sale like hotcakes from 10-$15k. It's kind of sad that GM could never engineer a V8 for a cheap vehicle, but whatever. Their loss. If you want a 6cyl, a 4cyl, you might as well get one from those that have been doing them reliably for years(Toyota/Nissan/Honda/etc.). Reliable, good aftermarket, cheap.
Last edited by number77; 12-24-2006 at 11:10 PM.
12-25-2006, 12:01 AM
#18
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You want to know something....If Nissan came out with the 280z/240z right now. Exact same car, stipped down to the bare essentials. It'd sale like hotcakes from 10-$15k. It's kind of sad that GM could never engineer a V8 for a cheap vehicle, but whatever. Their loss. If you want a 6cyl, a 4cyl, you might as well get one from those that have been doing them reliably for years(Toyota/Nissan/Honda/etc.). Reliable, good aftermarket, cheap.
I'm sure McDonald's could sell Big Mac's like.....errrm.....hotcakes if they charged 11 cents for them. Of course, if they wanted to actually stay in business, they'd have to hold the two all beef patties, lettuce, cheese, pickle, onions and sesame seed bun. Maybe you could get the special sauce for 11 cents, but then who would actually stop in for 11 cents worth of special sauce?
Anyways, Merry Christmas. Santa needs to go put a dent in the milk and cookies by the fireplace.
12-25-2006, 03:26 AM
#19
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That's not really realistic. I mean, what kind of V8 car can you expect for 10 grand? Or how would you do it? Not realistic at all.
I'm sure McDonald's could sell Big Mac's like.....errrm.....hotcakes if they charged 11 cents for them. Of course, if they wanted to actually stay in business, they'd have to hold the two all beef patties, lettuce, cheese, pickle, onions and sesame seed bun. Maybe you could get the special sauce for 11 cents, but then who would actually stop in for 11 cents worth of special sauce?
Anyways, Merry Christmas. Santa needs to go put a dent in the milk and cookies by the fireplace.
I'm sure McDonald's could sell Big Mac's like.....errrm.....hotcakes if they charged 11 cents for them. Of course, if they wanted to actually stay in business, they'd have to hold the two all beef patties, lettuce, cheese, pickle, onions and sesame seed bun. Maybe you could get the special sauce for 11 cents, but then who would actually stop in for 11 cents worth of special sauce?
Anyways, Merry Christmas. Santa needs to go put a dent in the milk and cookies by the fireplace.
12-25-2006, 05:34 AM
#20
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Melbourne, Australia
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Gm are paying the price for the years of drab interiors that have failed to attract the interest of the young. Young buyers look for 'cool', not fleet friendly. Have a look at Honda's interiors as an example of what I mean. The dash layout is low and allows a lot of light in. The instrumentation is bright and the controls above the console are tactile in feel. I've seen the Cobalt. Although an improvement over GM's past efforts, is still behind the Japanese interiors.
As far as exteriors go, GM are kicking goals with Solstice and Sky. Now if GM can just capture that essence with their small car coupes and sedans to woo Civic/Corolla buyers, then they've scored a hit. High revving, hi-tech engines with flash badging denoting the engine's credentials seem to be the way to the young's heart.
As far as exteriors go, GM are kicking goals with Solstice and Sky. Now if GM can just capture that essence with their small car coupes and sedans to woo Civic/Corolla buyers, then they've scored a hit. High revving, hi-tech engines with flash badging denoting the engine's credentials seem to be the way to the young's heart.
12-25-2006, 08:56 AM
#21
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12-25-2006, 12:39 PM
#22
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I've said it before and I'll say it again... there is a market for a small inexpensive and very fun RWD coupe or sedan. When I say inexpensive I'm talking $16k base, up to maybe $25k loaded. When I say small I mean VW Golf, not Malibu sized.
12-25-2006, 02:59 PM
#23
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Are you saying an average Joe could not build a ground up v8 car for $15k? I think he could. I also think that the dreaded GM-Dealer axis (commonly refered to as the GD-axis) would charge $20k for the same car.
Last edited by number77; 12-25-2006 at 03:15 PM.
12-25-2006, 03:25 PM
#24
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The question is....what are young people buying? I know me and my buddies have all bought used cars. Granted we are all mostly in college, but I don't know many people that do buy new cars when they're that young. Personally, I might never buy a new car simply because it's a waste of money.
But anyway, the only thing I would even see someone my age buying a new car is a Scion or a compact (of which I don't think the Mazda3 or Cobalt or Civic are in any shape better in looks than the others). Those VW Rabbits are pretty cheap but I don't see many of them either. Simply put, is this a market (22 and younger) that is even worth bothering for?
But anyway, the only thing I would even see someone my age buying a new car is a Scion or a compact (of which I don't think the Mazda3 or Cobalt or Civic are in any shape better in looks than the others). Those VW Rabbits are pretty cheap but I don't see many of them either. Simply put, is this a market (22 and younger) that is even worth bothering for?
12-26-2006, 12:30 AM
#26
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Could GM make a fun $15,000 car? Sure. Could GM make a saleable $15,000, V8, muscle car? No way.
But, I've got an open mind. Give me your best recipe for how such a car could be built. I'm all ears.
12-26-2006, 08:03 AM
#27
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Location: Melbourne, Australia
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This is the entry level market where persons could either gain or lose respect for an automaker. The second hand market also attracts a semi-conscientious buyer... style/image still sells however not all boxes need necessarily be ticked.
12-26-2006, 08:08 AM
#28
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Toyota made the Scion brand to target exactly this segment. Very smart move.
Honda kills the competition with the Civic.
GM has the Cobalt which is not cutting it right now.
Nissan revamoed the Sentra so we shall ee how that goes.
Honda kills the competition with the Civic.
GM has the Cobalt which is not cutting it right now.
Nissan revamoed the Sentra so we shall ee how that goes.
12-26-2006, 01:26 PM
#30
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Location: northeast Miss.
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I would like to see them take and build a compact forced induction race car. Then, take all of the race parts off, and put their factory stuff on it to make it cheap and meet regulations. If they keep doing this, a whole new breed of compact tuners will arise. The aftermarkets will see how easily they can stick a turbocharger in this convenient spot that looks like it was made for one 
, and their mass production of these products will drive the mod costs down. More kids will buy them, the intention being, "Man, I can't wait till I can afford to get the blower or turbo kit for my blahblahblah, or maybe even that new suspension setup from blahblahblah!"
, and their mass production of these products will drive the mod costs down. More kids will buy them, the intention being, "Man, I can't wait till I can afford to get the blower or turbo kit for my blahblahblah, or maybe even that new suspension setup from blahblahblah!"