First of all, this is only in reference to the F-body.

Perhaps GM meant to take away the Camaro only to give it back to us all along. Perhaps it was marketing strategy.


I can't come up with figures right now, but if memory serves me well, the 300ZX wasn't a blistering seller. One of the reasons it was discontinued.

Fast forward 7 years and it's back, and there are tons of people wanting one and it's on C&Ds 10 Best. There is buzz everywhere about it. It will need be watched over the next five years to see if sales drop off, but they are strong right now.

Is this what GM is trying to do?

 

It's a whole lot more than that, and it's been beaten to death over the past year or so. But just to recap for everyone who missed it:

*GM looked into basing a 5th gen on Holden components towards the middle of last decade. For whatever reason, they decided not to. Fortunately, they also decided not to base it on the GrandAm chassis either (Yep, that was also seriously considered). Along the way, there was also a study done on a Corvette based F-body which seems not to have made it out of the starting block.

*Before the paint was dry on the 1998 revision, the decision was made to drop the F-body, and development money ended.

*In a nod to Scott and quite a few people, the F-body was scheduled to die earlier than it did, but they managed to keep it in production almost till the absolute last moment. In the end, the choice boiled down to either to spend money redoing the 20 year old chassis for new Federal regulations, or simply ending production. GM simply wasn't going to spend the money on a new structure (remember, the old GM wasn't spending money on anything but Trucks, Corvette, and Cadillac).

*GM went through a major change of key people just before the f-body was discontinued. The old group had no intention of immediately bringing back Camaro, and had no plans of having any RWD cars beyond Cadillac, Corvette, and possibly Buick. Now, at least, people are busy putting together a business case.

*There was a clampdown on any mention of Camaro because the public reason for discontinuing the F-bodies was a lack of sales. Word is this was the only way GM could close down the Ste. Therese plant, which had alot of issues (none related to the quality of work or pay issues with the union there) before their contract expired. Any mention of Camaro before a certain timeframe could be construed as sales not being a factor in discontinuing production, and possibly subjecting GM to hefty penalties related to closing down a plant for perceived financial reasons.

*GM has a tremendous number of new models comming out in the next few years that have it's full attention. Anything that can be reskinned versions of these cars will have an easier time getting to market.

*GM has also recommited to RWD cars, but to date the only ones that will get to market quickly is the "Tubular" Solstice group of cars, starting the 2006 model year (2005 Calender) at the earliest, and the "full size" cars for the 2007 model year (2006 Calender) at the earliest. This entire effort began shortly after Bob Lutz's arrival (before, if you count the Solstice & Belair's initial designs).

*As I understand it, Camaro (assuming it returns in the next few years) has 2 possibilities: Piggybacking off the Solstice cars, by becomming a reskinned 4 passenger V8 coupe version, getting to market the same time or slightly after the Solstice, or becomming a shortened version of the upcomming full sized cars, meaning it would need it's own body structure, and would come out later rather than sooner.

So in short:
1. Camaro and Firebird were doomed as early as 1997.
2. The reason we don't have one now is because GM/NA had no RWD chassis to base it on, couldn't continue the old one any longer, and wasn't going to do additional investment for a old chassis.
3. Any real start the 5th gen has, began not long ago, and given gestation times & hurdles to jump, it takes 3 to 4 years to work through the system (it's 18 months after final approval).
4. Best guesses seem to say 5th gen by 2007 at the absolute earliest, but it's going to have to be a bit of a rush job.

 

^well put

as for the 300zx and the 350z thing...

1 - the 350z is a return to it's datsun roots: cheap, nimble, good looking...
2 - the 300zx was more of a japanese version of the C4... descent car, good power, but too gimmicky and too heavy for it's own good... plus look at the competiton: RX7, supra, 3000gt (the RX7 and supra were arguably better cars in alot of respects)
3 - nissan is kicking some market share *** rightnow because their cars look meaner, perform just as well, and are priced less than the other brands

 

There are a lot of parallels to the 300XZ story -

Both weren't significantly updated for a number of years.

Both had become too expensive for their own good. (Here the camaro was a little different, in that you could get a cheaper model, but they were plain and the pricey loaded models were typically what was stocked at dealers).

Both cast bright halo on the rest of the line-up, were aspirational cars and had a great heritage.

It made no sense do discontinue either. Remember, after Nissan lost the Z-Car* their image became so-so and their brand lost a lot of excitement. Eventually the company was taken over by Renault. Was this because of the Z-Car? No, but not having it there certainly did not help, and it demonstrated the lost of priority in making exciting cars (which is what hurt them).

Chevrolet is having the same problem. Other than their almost unattainable Corvette, they don't make any cars that raise anyones pulse. Most seem to sell because of heavy intcentives. Not having a Camaro there to bring in a little excitement makes things seem that much worse.

I don't think it was a bright idea to discontinue the car and then bring it back from a marketing perspective. Nissan lost more than just Z-car sales and Chevy is losing more than just Camaro sales.


Disclaimer: I'll call it the Z-Car here, but we all know the first Z-car had a /28 after the Z.

 

However, Nissan has since rebuilt their image, which was fairly bad at that point, and thus they could push a new Z car hard. Chevy, Lord knows, needs slightly less than a miracle to rebuild their image. After that I'd watch for them pushing their own Z car.

 

......a "Genius" would simply hand over tens of thousands of car sales to thier long time competitor for nearly five years.......this was a complete failure of bean counters and non-car people to have any sort of forward vision for GM what so ever.......period.