Time for you to admit that the "transplants" aren't given cash at all. GM and Chrysler are the ones getting cash.

And I love that, a month ago, when I said GM was headed for bankruptcy, I was a jerk. And now it's fine for you to talk about it as a matter of course.

 

There's two sides to every story and that's certainly true of Wagoner's plight.

HOWEVER, I read an article about Mulally recently on detnews...

Mulally, as a newbie to the auto industry, has been at the helm for only a short time. In comparison, has Mulally achieved more at Ford than Wagoner during his entire term as GM's CEO given Ford had a bland product lineup with very few fresh models on the horizon when Mulally joined? In a financial sense, the answer to that question would have to be a definite YES!

Mulally did what he had to do! Wagoner didn't.

 

Sounds like most pundits are saying bankruptcy is now the better choice for GM, versus succumbing to increasing control from Uncle Sam. Obama has clearly signalled that his "solution" for GM involves more about protecting the unions and pushing political agendas (such as green cars) rather than promoting what's best for GM to survive. I can't say that I disagree.

http://www.forbes.com/2009/04/01/shi...ankruptcy.html

 

What on Earth are you talking about? The transplants "get cash" every year in the form of tax breaks from hosting states and communities. That's money that will NEVER be paid back by them. It makes little difference when their (numerous!) financial advantages are summed up, if it's "cash" or not. All these breaks, including their unfair trade advantages, are what make it hard for the domestics to compete and have a level field to play on.

BTW maybe you should put that trite movie poster graphic in your sigblock

 

Spot on.

Whether it's cash or tax breaks it's money that the community otherwise does without.

 

You seriously can't tell the difference between cash and a tax break?

In one case, cash is taken from a tax payer and given to the company. That cash has to come from somewhere. And it's coming from you.

In the other case, no cash is ever transferred. No cash is taken from anybody, and no cash ever has to be repaid. There's no transfer of money.

Ask yourself if you'd rather have cash in your hand or a deduction on your taxes next year. Then ask your neighbor if he'd rather give you some cash or have you take a deduction on next years taxes. Big difference.

 

Absolutely wrong. If BMW didn't build a plant in SC, for example, it's not 'money the community otherwise does without.' Because they wouldn't be located there to pay taxes to begin with.

The day before BMW moves in, SC gets no BMW taxes. The day after they move in, they get taxes from BMW - minus some tax break they were given. A net gain.

The alternative is BMW doesn't move in at all, and SC gets no taxes. So the status quo is no money it all. Nothing to 'do without.' It's not like they move in and start sucking cash from the taxpayers, is it?

Is this really that complicated to understand?

For that matter - tax revenue from GM and Chrysler is 'money the community has otherwise been doing without' for years now. And now they're getting billions in cash, to boot.

And you're saying that's the same as a state tax deduction - and a net tax revenue?

 

 

Unfair trade advantage?

Tell me how much GM has paid in taxes over the last five years. Then tell me about the "unfair advantage" another company has by getting a state tax deduction for a new plant.

 

Exactly. So BMW are above the law in this regard... whereas GM, Ford, Chrysler have had to pay taxes for so many years and now they're getting kicked in the ***** by every neo-capitalist that can spin them down.

EDIT: It's like borrowing money... here's your loan but you will eventually pay it back with interest.

 

You mean BMW hasn't been paying U.S. Federal taxes? Really?

Really? They've paid taxes recently? Tell me the last time they've paid any taxes at all. I can't remember back that far.

Yeah, I'll hold my breath.

 

That's right, Believe it or not, just 20 years ago GM was the biggest company in the world. It had a AAA credit rating and controlled over 50% of the market at one point in its history... a point in time where lawmakers were considering splitting the company up as part of its anti-monopoly policy. Err, this also implies that GM was paying its taxes.

But it's interesting that you should only reflect on the past 5 years or so... as if to prove a point.

GM, Ford and Chrysler combined have been paying more taxes than all the transplants combined if you want to put the history of domestic automobiles in the USA into proper context. But I guess that doesn't matter anymore, right?

 

I guess you and I have a basic philosophical difference about posting pictures here. You tend to post pix to annoy and 'be cute'. I post them to inspire, and to honor. Here's my tribute to Mr. Wagoner. I know he made mistakes. But he also signed off on the next Camaro and that's the reason we have one in production today

 

And 100 years ago, they didn't exist at all. I'm not sure what your point is.

The point is: the big 3 haven't paid any taxes in years. So people need to stop pretending that this cash giveaway is just a return of some of the taxes they've already paid. It's not.

It's welfare. Just like any other. And each of us are paying it.

 

Oh, brother...I think I hear the national anthem playing in the background.

Get over yourself.