GM Bankruptcy Tomorrow? Don't Be Shocked
I think it pretty much went like this: admin hates Josh. Admin contacts insider. Insider gives Josh false information. Josh runs with story that Outlook has been cancelled (just doing what we all do; reporting a story) That fact that the info was false comes out. Josh's reputation was damaged and he was asked to leave the site.
Nothing but politics 101.
Nothing but politics 101.
It wasn't politics it was ego. Josh went against the wishes of those in charge of the board and things went south from there. At the time many, myself included, defended his actions. When more info came to the surface most of those defenders gave up.
There was more to it than that. IIRC the admins and Josh discussed the story and they voted not to run it. Josh did it anyway. Also there was conflicting evidence to the story which he ignored.
It wasn't politics it was ego. Josh went against the wishes of those in charge of the board and things went south from there. At the time many, myself included, defended his actions. When more info came to the surface most of those defenders gave up.
It wasn't politics it was ego. Josh went against the wishes of those in charge of the board and things went south from there. At the time many, myself included, defended his actions. When more info came to the surface most of those defenders gave up.
I won't air it out here with what happened. If you want to know how it went down, FOG has the best short answer there is. If you want a long answer, PM me and I'll be happy to e-mail you that chapter out of the book I'm writing.
But I will say this, the set-up didn't do anything to harm me in the long term. I'm still doing what I love to do best and those that had ill will towards me...well....do you see them interviewing the likes of Lutz? Are their words put in the New York Times? You call it an ego, I call it being proud of my accomplishments.
Enough of that.
The bondholders that agreed to a deal make up 20% of GM's $27 Billion in debut. GM needs 90% to stave off banruptcy (aint happening.) Today in the SEC filing (I have it up on my site) awhole BUNCH of news was made available including what we see now is "Old GM" and the U.S. Government is buying GM and it will be "New GM." Plus, the billions in loans given to GM to get this far? That's going to be lumped with "Old GM." What does that mean?
It means GM doesn't have to pay a dime back of what was already loaned to them.
The U.S. Treasury would own 72.5 percent of the new GM coming out of a bankruptcy sale process, while a trust affiliated with the United Auto Workers union would own 17.5 percent, GM said in a filing with securities regulators.
http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2009/...s-gm.html?_r=1
They are going to own nearly 3/4 of "the new GM" that if all goes well after bankruptcy should be a decently valued company
Actually if this deal goes through(and it looks like it will based on the news) there won't be a bankruptcy, or at least not a true and proper bankruptcy. In fact this deal will kill GM and be bad for GM enthusiasits and will severly hurt all lenders of GM who could get most of their money bakc in normal bankruptcy but will get nothing with the new deal apperently, there was no mention of the gov. repaying the lenders. Current bondholders and stock holders will get severly screwed out of their investment as well. This will give control of the company to the gov. and to the UAW(who by the way are the biggest supporters of the Democratic party). The gov. and UAW will be able to run any vehicle agenda they want. Obama has said he wants to push green technology and the such. So chances are GM will become nothing more than a green car co. and there is a good chance that you can kiss trucks, sports cars(inlcuding the new Camaro), and any other vehicle that doosn't get high gas mileage, goodbye. GM will essentially turn into a zombie co. that will continue to be run into the ground with the gov. picking up the debt and a complete loss of support from the public that has kept GM afloat as long as it has. I can tell you I'll stop buying GM if this deal goes through and the gov. takes over GM and destroys it with a political agenda. I'll guess I'll give Ford a chance.
Ah correction on the lenders payback. According to a new news article(and better fleshed out), in the new deal the 'bad' parts of GM will go to bankruptcy to repay any lenders while the 'good' parts will be free and clear. This will still screw lenders since the bad parts are worthless and won't pay much back to lenders. Also the deal is apparently far from being accepted as apparently 90% of bondholders must accept the deal by Saturday. So there is still hope GM will remain out of the gov. hands. We'll know by Sat, the fate of GM.
Ah correction on the lenders payback. According to a new news article(and better fleshed out), in the new deal the 'bad' parts of GM will go to bankruptcy to repay any lenders while the 'good' parts will be free and clear. This will still screw lenders since the bad parts are worthless and won't pay much back to lenders. Also the deal is apparently far from being accepted as apparently 90% of bondholders must accept the deal by Saturday. So there is still hope GM will remain out of the gov. hands. We'll know by Sat, the fate of GM.
The problem with the "bondholders getting screwed" argument is that these institutional investors could have forked out another $10-$20B and ended up owning 100% of General Motors, if they wanted to. However they didn't because they actually don't care about GM, they were just gambling on junk bonds.
Here's the latest. The new deadline for the the deal is apperently Mon. Obama has thrown out the 90% approval and stated 'the gov will look at the level of support and make a decision'. So basically Obama is gearing up to seize GM. Stockholders will get absolutely nothing. Welcome to the new America, gov. controled business with anyone who invested in said business getting screwed. The taxpayers get screwed for having to pay for the business' unprofitability. The consumer gets screwed by having the co. do business based on on a political agenda and not what they want or what is best for the co.
(I wonder how much the new mustang costs)
(I wonder how much the new mustang costs)
I do what I can... Glad you're a fan!
It's really no secret that I haven't been a fan of C&G for a while, despite posting there and being featured on the front page. Like Josh, I was "disposed of" by lesser admins after being one of the founding members. But I guess that's what happens when the owner of the site doesn't care that it exists and then allows some kids to run it.
Anyway... That's another topic entirely.
It's really no secret that I haven't been a fan of C&G for a while, despite posting there and being featured on the front page. Like Josh, I was "disposed of" by lesser admins after being one of the founding members. But I guess that's what happens when the owner of the site doesn't care that it exists and then allows some kids to run it.
Anyway... That's another topic entirely.
take it to heart. it's a little theatrical, i'm aware, nor do i care that much in the end, but c&g was a homebase for many nerdy car enthusiasts, and more than those, for informed and active participants. lots of information was gathered there......tone that was initiated there with regards to GM's legacy, product has migrated over to the other sites. content has visibly shifted at the other site, a shift that was long ago initiated through c&g. content is the only reigning king, and people will move elsewhere for people...to get closer to those with real knowledge and conviction of opinion.
Last edited by turbo200; May 29, 2009 at 10:17 PM.
First Postitive GM article I've seen for a while.....
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/With-b...&asset=&ccode=
DETROIT (AP) -- With bankruptcy looming, a new GM begins to emerge
With an almost certain bankruptcy filing days away, General Motors is beginning its reinvention, planning to retool one factory to make its smallest vehicles ever in the U.S. and rid itself of the biggest.
As GM's board began two days of meetings Friday to make a final decision on the company's fate, its main union overwhelmingly approved dramatic labor cost cuts. Germany's finance minister said a plan was approved for Canadian auto parts maker Magna International Inc. to rescue GM's European Opel unit. And a deal to sell GM's rugged but inefficient Hummer brand also appeared on the horizon.
The moves provided more clues about what a restructured GM might look like ahead of the expected Chapter 11 filing Monday. Taxpayers will eventually own nearly three-quarters of a leaner GM, with a total government commitment of nearly $50 billion.
GM has yet to confirm it will seek bankruptcy protection but scheduled a news conference for Monday in New York.
With the government's backing and nearly $20 billion in U.S. loans so far, the company has made more dramatic changes in just a few days than it has in decades.
"It's been coming to a head for a very long time," said Aaron Bragman, an analyst for the consulting firm IHS Global Insight. "But in just the past few months we've really seen steps being taken to completely and dramatically change the face of American auto manufacturing."
GM said it plans to reopen a shuttered U.S. factory to build subcompact cars. The retooled factory would be able to build 160,000 cars a year and create 1,200 jobs, offsetting some of the 21,000 that will be lost when GM closes 14 factories by the end of next year.
GM's stock tumbled to the lowest price in the company's 100-year history, closing at just 75 cents after trading as low as 74 cents. The government plan for GM revealed Thursday would make the shares virtually worthless.
The United Auto Workers' reluctant but overwhelming ratification of concessions will save GM $1.3 billion per year and bring its labor costs down to those of its Japanese competitors. The new UAW deal freezes wages, ends bonuses and eliminates some noncompetitive work rules.
The changes, plus others that will be worked out in court, will shrink GM and position it to be among the world's most competitive automakers if it can emerge from bankruptcy protection and survive the global auto sales slump, Bragman said.
"They've eliminated their legacy costs. They've already invested in new product that's coming. They have the ear of the government unlike any time in their history, and the government has said basically 'we are going to help you survive and thrive,'" Bragman said.
GM is banking on more demand for smaller cars previously shunned by Americans. The government decided earlier this month to raise fuel economy standards for the entire U.S. fleet by 2016.
The new standards were one of the biggest factors in GM's announcement to build subcompacts in the U.S. rather than in China, said a person familiar with GM's plans who spoke on condition of anonymity because of the sensitive nature of the plans.
Chrysler LLC, already in bankruptcy protection, is banking on the same thing. It wants to sell all its assets to Fiat Group SpA so the Italian automaker can start building its sophisticated small cars on this side of the ocean.
The strategy is still a big gamble. Americans have opted for bigger cars and trucks, with the exception of last summer, when gas topped $4 per gallon. GM and Chrysler hope people will spend more for better-equipped subcompacts with more luxurious interiors and performance that rivals the best luxury sedans.
Smaller costs after bankruptcy should help the companies make money even though compact cars carry far smaller profit margins than pricey SUVs. But there remains a risk that gas prices will remain low and the cars won't sell, blowing up the automakers' new business models.
The UAW deal moves billions in retiree health care costs off GM's books, giving a union-run retiree health care trust 17.5 percent ownership of a post-bankruptcy GM. The trust will take on health care costs for retirees next year. Higher health care costs alone account for a $1,500-per-car cost gap between GM and Japanese vehicles.
But just cutting labor costs won't be enough to save the company. It also has been working to streamline its engineering and design, as well as standardize many parts so they can go into multiple models.
"They've already made huge progress," said Laurie Harbour-Felax, president of a consulting company that studies competitive cost differences between automakers. "The problem is you can't see that because revenue died, because nobody's buying cars."
With an almost certain bankruptcy filing days away, General Motors is beginning its reinvention, planning to retool one factory to make its smallest vehicles ever in the U.S. and rid itself of the biggest.
As GM's board began two days of meetings Friday to make a final decision on the company's fate, its main union overwhelmingly approved dramatic labor cost cuts. Germany's finance minister said a plan was approved for Canadian auto parts maker Magna International Inc. to rescue GM's European Opel unit. And a deal to sell GM's rugged but inefficient Hummer brand also appeared on the horizon.
The moves provided more clues about what a restructured GM might look like ahead of the expected Chapter 11 filing Monday. Taxpayers will eventually own nearly three-quarters of a leaner GM, with a total government commitment of nearly $50 billion.
GM has yet to confirm it will seek bankruptcy protection but scheduled a news conference for Monday in New York.
With the government's backing and nearly $20 billion in U.S. loans so far, the company has made more dramatic changes in just a few days than it has in decades.
"It's been coming to a head for a very long time," said Aaron Bragman, an analyst for the consulting firm IHS Global Insight. "But in just the past few months we've really seen steps being taken to completely and dramatically change the face of American auto manufacturing."
GM said it plans to reopen a shuttered U.S. factory to build subcompact cars. The retooled factory would be able to build 160,000 cars a year and create 1,200 jobs, offsetting some of the 21,000 that will be lost when GM closes 14 factories by the end of next year.
GM's stock tumbled to the lowest price in the company's 100-year history, closing at just 75 cents after trading as low as 74 cents. The government plan for GM revealed Thursday would make the shares virtually worthless.
The United Auto Workers' reluctant but overwhelming ratification of concessions will save GM $1.3 billion per year and bring its labor costs down to those of its Japanese competitors. The new UAW deal freezes wages, ends bonuses and eliminates some noncompetitive work rules.
The changes, plus others that will be worked out in court, will shrink GM and position it to be among the world's most competitive automakers if it can emerge from bankruptcy protection and survive the global auto sales slump, Bragman said.
"They've eliminated their legacy costs. They've already invested in new product that's coming. They have the ear of the government unlike any time in their history, and the government has said basically 'we are going to help you survive and thrive,'" Bragman said.
GM is banking on more demand for smaller cars previously shunned by Americans. The government decided earlier this month to raise fuel economy standards for the entire U.S. fleet by 2016.
The new standards were one of the biggest factors in GM's announcement to build subcompacts in the U.S. rather than in China, said a person familiar with GM's plans who spoke on condition of anonymity because of the sensitive nature of the plans.
Chrysler LLC, already in bankruptcy protection, is banking on the same thing. It wants to sell all its assets to Fiat Group SpA so the Italian automaker can start building its sophisticated small cars on this side of the ocean.
The strategy is still a big gamble. Americans have opted for bigger cars and trucks, with the exception of last summer, when gas topped $4 per gallon. GM and Chrysler hope people will spend more for better-equipped subcompacts with more luxurious interiors and performance that rivals the best luxury sedans.
Smaller costs after bankruptcy should help the companies make money even though compact cars carry far smaller profit margins than pricey SUVs. But there remains a risk that gas prices will remain low and the cars won't sell, blowing up the automakers' new business models.
The UAW deal moves billions in retiree health care costs off GM's books, giving a union-run retiree health care trust 17.5 percent ownership of a post-bankruptcy GM. The trust will take on health care costs for retirees next year. Higher health care costs alone account for a $1,500-per-car cost gap between GM and Japanese vehicles.
But just cutting labor costs won't be enough to save the company. It also has been working to streamline its engineering and design, as well as standardize many parts so they can go into multiple models.
"They've already made huge progress," said Laurie Harbour-Felax, president of a consulting company that studies competitive cost differences between automakers. "The problem is you can't see that because revenue died, because nobody's buying cars."
it's hard enough being a GM fan already these days, to not have to deal with negative and bs repetitive commentary like your own and others......your voice and other garbage has contributed to decline in poster contributions. no doubt, c&G is an example of a community ravaged of its base [a successful GM], and then overtaken by whining and asinine village idiots who's only purpose is to contribute to already seriously weakened civilian sentiment. if C&G were an island we would already be taken over and being used as slaves thanks to demoralization and opposition by those within the community.
I did not ruin the site. I simply stood my ground when others (PCS, you, etc.) trolled to merely **** people off about their opinions of GM and other auto companies. So essentially, you're vilifying me for trying to save the community. And these "insiders" get a free pass because most of the current admins don't have the backbone to run the place like it should be ran.
I never asked you to agree with me or even comment on what I posted.
*This is the last post I will make on that subject. I am not hijacking a thread over something that isn't even worth my time.
Last edited by FUTURE_OF_GM; May 30, 2009 at 02:56 PM.
but wait till 2011 when the new powertrains are supposed to arrive, if anybody is a 4th gen fan, this will provide the least shock (although get the crop and spurs out, even at 5.0 liters I think the Mustang will still feel soft).
i just wish they'd put a telescoping steering column on it.


